A remarkable book

I place on the top book shelf, albeit a notch below “Jonathan Livingston Seagull“, among books that has had deep impact on my views – the remarkable “Logicomix“.

An epic search for truth, through the eyes of Bertrand Russel rendered in an epic form. The blending of the foundational quest in mathematics and the aesthetics of great comic artwork. It is easy to understand why this book has been given awards across the boards – it presents deep concepts in an ingenious and simple way.

logicomix1

We are taken through the basic concepts of foundational logic – from Aristotle to the modern masters such as Bertrand Russel, Alfred North Whitehead, Ludwig Wittgenstein and Kurt Gödel.

The genius of Wittgenstein was news to me. He represents some fascinating insight into the foundations of so called reality and its limitations.

logicomix2

… because:

logicomix3

And the quest culminates with the profound realization og Gödel in his incompleteness theorems. I have covered this before, but a clearer summary of what I consider to be Man’s greatest intellectual achievement to date would be along these lines:

  1. If the system is consistent, it cannot be complete.
  2. The consistency of the axioms cannot be proven within the system.

Gödel’s first incompleteness theorem showed that a system of logic could not be both consistent and complete. According to the theorem, within every sufficiently powerful logical system, there exists a statement G that essentially reads, “The statement G cannot be proved.” Such a statement is a sort of Catch-22: if G is provable, then it is false, and the system is therefore inconsistent; and if G is not provable, then it is true, and the system is therefore incomplete.

Gödel’s second incompleteness theorem shows that no formal system extending basic arithmetic can be used to prove its own consistency. Thus, the statement “there are no contradictions in the system H” cannot be proven in system H unless there are contradictions in the system (in which case it can be proven both true and false).

This is precisely why the “the meaning of the world does not reside in the world“. Which in essence gives a foundation for free will.

147 Comments

      • We’re on the same page. I am trying but I cannot grasp something so enormous as a “set of universe.” If I say it’s everything, then I’ve generated another tautology. If I’ve understood your point, then my abstraction goes in two directions.

        Possibly what we know of the universe can be a subset of a yet greater superset of universe with the material that we know inside and something greater or divine outside. This model makes Godel’s work (I think.)

        The other way is that the universe is everything seen and unseen and Godel’s Theorems work for subsets of everything. I still anticipate the Divine but my concept is through immanence, more than transcendence.

        • It doesn’t matter how large you make the set. It still remains that it is either incomplete or inconsistent. The quest for consistency will never be complete. Which begs the question; What is ultimately outside everything – something that that can be both consistent and inconsistent, at will perhaps?

          • Geir: “Which begs the question; What is ultimately outside everything – something that that can be both consistent and inconsistent, at will perhaps?

            I think LRH had essentially the same viewpoint but expressed it in terms of “to be or not to be, at will,” as essential to being self-determined – i.e. essential to having free will (emphasis in bold is mine):

            “A terminal is, in essence, any point of no form or any form or dimension from which energy can flow or by which energy can be received. A viewpoint then, is a sort of terminal, but a terminal must have a particle in order to do automatic interchanges and one finds that a viewpoint can be affected by the MEST universe only when the viewpoint has identified itself with some MEST universe article, such as a body. The rehabilitation of the viewpoint’s ability TO BE, OR NOT BE, AT WILL IS ESSENTIAL IN ORDER THAT A VIEWPOINT BE SELF-DETERMINED about what is affecting him and what is not affecting him. This depends, of course then, upon what a viewpoint identifies himself with and depends upon the ability of the viewpoint to unidentify himself rapidly.” (8-8008)

          • Geir
            “” Which begs the question; What is ultimately outside everything – something that that can be both consistent and inconsistent, at will perhaps?

            “”that is knowledge”” in the true form of cognitions. Exist when one needs it and it is not there when not required.
            Yes. KNOWLEDGE surfaces at will.

  1. “””THE MEANING OF THE WORLD THOSE NOT RESIDE IN THE WORLD””””

    here is something from Marty’s blog, But of course V.. never have commented back;

    V….”Awareness appears to be the property of the disturbance. Light appears to be outward expression of the disturbance. Awareness at this level is of a primordial nature. It builds up as perception and discrimination as light gains wave-length and frequency.

    There is no self at this level. The universe consists only of radiating awareness and light. The universe itself is the primordial self. While matter and objects are generated from electromagnetic radiation, soul and self are generated from awareness.

    http://vinaire.me/2014/03/06/khtk-postulates-for-metaphysics-part-1/“””

    .Elizabeth Hamre | June 3, 2014 at 11:16 am | Reply

    Elizabeth.
    ” In my reality… awareness it self is doing something, being aware is already connecting to ”knowing”, if one do not know than cant possibly being ”aware”.
    Again in my reality, “awareness ” is relatively new term since becoming aware one has to know what one is aware of, and that is judging, comparing.
    Toss these thought about, but before you do please remove those occluding filters. :)

    Elizabeth Hamre | June 3, 2014 at 11:25 am | Reply

    to V…PS;; have you occurred to you that there is another universe outside of this Universe which is nothing more than on energy field?
    And the ”’awareness”’ was there long before we become aware of this Universe, have it occurred to you that this energy field is really nothing more than on energy field and the awareness is outside of this fiend?

    Elizabeth Hamre | June 3, 2014 at 11:56 am | Reply

    to V…… I have total recall of the track and not only mine but millions of other beings too. So this bit of reality gained gives me a very different view of the Universe.

    Here is something to think over: the reason scientist and others who do their best ”by trying” to figure out this universe but cant and that is simply because the puzzle pieces don’t fit together.

    The pieces which they want to fit into each other belong to a very different universe : ”awareness” is one of them.

    Of course those who are in this place here have some of the ”memory” …reality available now of that Universe but they do not know that it belongs a very different reality which is not based on energy field.

    The guessing will be going on for long time, but one has to step out of this energy-field to understand what is beyond..
    Of course, I understand that this view-reality I have presented is totally unacceptable by you. since to you I am nothing but on airhead, delusional person..

    I find it most interesting that people like you by the millions went into scientology for one reason only: to find reality beyond what was or is available, yet, when reading that yes some one in this case me, have achieved that, that cant see beyond the ”normal human beliefs’ is labelled as delusional, out of her mind.. :)

    Free Will.. what are our Daydreams!
    For years I have been wondering what are our IMMAGINATIONS those thoughts when we are wishing for something, something beautiful, and in these beautiful imaginations we are construction creating something independently new, original and usually these Imagined make-beliefs are not connected to anything special, but these creations make us feel good and we are always victors. And these Imaginations so called visualizations day-dreams we are fully aware that they are just that and we also know that they never become real.. will never ever happen, materialize.
    But they feel good to have them and these day-dreams are our own and no one can touch and destroy them.
    Within these Daydreams we are free, and we are free thinkers, we have free will to create whatever we desire, whatever extravagant we want and with that we have..
    Realization: these daydreams are outside of the MEST, they are not controlled by the implanted forced on beliefs and they can’t become real because we were made to believe and we have agreed that only implanted realities are true, and anything outside of these implanted believes these are just ILLUSIONS and therefore not important, don’t have value and most of all truly not real.
    In fact it is reversed… the freedom of Daydreaming is the creation of Free Will.
    Have a good one!

    Jonathan Livingston Seagull .. yes.. book too is my all-time favorite and never read Gödel.
    I will say it again here, no one will find the answers about this universe in this Universe, since knowledge we have brought with us from Universe totally forgotten by now by us.. And that Knowledge is different reality but of course some of it is interpreted but will not fit into the MEST-energy field, in the narrow minded considerations of those who believe in only what the ”eyes” can see..

  2. PS; Each considerations -thoughts-agreements any person has that is their reality, therefor that is their universe: cant see outside of hose already existing beliefs and each though is sitting on a energy mass.. That energy-mass has varied amount of charge to which the person is being stuck.

    The person only have much SPACE as these energy-masses occupies: while the person is within the boundaries of the belief he only have reality and free will is only on illusion. because long as every though, beliefs this person has is sitting an… being connected to that energy -mass those energy masses are the controlling factors=stimulations they provide and those are the thoughts-belief.

    Auditing-confronting by having cognitions the person separate self from those heavy energy masses and FREE WILL on those subjects the new reality= truth is that persons new universe and within that universe that person is free to create.
    By separating self from those energy-masses the person space expands incredibly and allows that person to view new realities, understanding how what is perceived now IS.

    With those new realities in place they are now the new boundaries for that person, they remain in place till until again new viewpoints are embraced and with that the expansion of that persons space continues and within the Free Will, which are the creative abilities of that persons: the Illusions… creating .. illusions and that too is that persons knowledge-understanding.

  3. Let me comment on this quote from LRH (8-8008) which is provides by Marildi above:

    “A terminal is, in essence, any point of no form or any form or dimension from which energy can flow or by which energy can be received. A viewpoint then, is a sort of terminal, but a terminal must have a particle in order to do automatic interchanges and one finds that a viewpoint can be affected by the MEST universe only when the viewpoint has identified itself with some MEST universe article, such as a body. The rehabilitation of the viewpoint’s ability TO BE, OR NOT BE, AT WILL IS ESSENTIAL IN ORDER THAT A VIEWPOINT BE SELF-DETERMINED about what is affecting him and what is not affecting him. This depends, of course then, upon what a viewpoint identifies himself with and depends upon the ability of the viewpoint to unidentify himself rapidly.”

    The viewpoint is a condensed ball of considerations, but these are softer type of considerations with greater ability to transmute input. A terminal is also a condensed ball of considerations, but these considerations are of a harder type with lesser ability to transmute the input. They rather channel the input.

    It is not the “identification with MEST” that is wrong with a viewpoint. What is wrong is that its internal makeup of considerations is all tangled up and needs to be sorted out.

    Awareness and matter, like software and hardware, are two different aspects of the same phenomenon. A thetan does not exist separate from the body that it can be picked up from a body with forceps. The thetan is distributed throughout the body into each DNA as a wave phenomenon.

    .

  4. There is nothing “outside” the universe. The universe is a term that is intended to look at all existence as a single system.

    Observations that apply to sub systems that exist side by side within the universe cannot be automatically assumed to apply to the universe as the sole system with nothing existing beside it.

    Regarding the nature of this universe my current working model is as follows. Of course, it is subject to change:

    KHTK Postulate M-1A: For there to be awareness there must be disturbance.

    The rawest of all awareness has to be the awareness of pure disturbance. Prior to that there would be no awareness. Only a theoretical ground state may be postulated in terms of undisturbed primordial field that contains no frequency, wavelength or period.

    But this ground state shall forever be unknowable and shall remain only theoretical because there is no awareness to go with it. Awareness arises only when this ground state is disturbed. The awareness then accompanies a disturbance that seem to be traveling through a primordial field.

    .

    KHTK Postulate M-1B: This disturbance has the outward form of primordial light wave.

    This is a very raw level of creation. Soul, self, energy, matter, etc., come later.

    While awareness is the essential property of this disturbance, the outward form of the disturbance is not different from some primordial harmonic of the electromagnetic wave. The wave-length of this disturbance is nearly infinite, and the frequency nearly zero. The period and velocity are infinite for all practical purposes.

    We instinctively associate light with awareness. Both of them seem to have the same basis. Both seem to be merely two different aspects of the same primordial phenomenon.

    Light may fall in the category called ‘physical’. Awareness may fall in the category called metaphysical or ‘spiritual’. It is quite possible that the old assumption that ‘physical’ and ‘spiritual’ are two separate phenomena is in error. More likely the ‘universe’ is a single phenomenon and ‘physical’ and ‘spiritual’ are two different ways of looking at it.

    .

    In this model awareness and light start out in a very primitive form, These are aspects of a phenomenon that evolves into a sophisticated universe. It is only in this developed universe that we find ‘spiritual’ self and ‘physical’ objects.

    Thus, there is no developed intelligence at the early stages of the universe. Intelligence has developed along with the universe as part of it. There is no “physical” universe as such. It is a “spiritual-physical” universe.

    .

    • Another comment regarding both you/KHTK and Hubbard/Scientology: I believe you have both done your work a great disservice by merging a methodology with a philosophy. Both you and Hubbard have supplied working methodologies – but to fuse it with a world view and all kinds of explanations as to why it seemingly works is to feed your audience your own filters and not let the audience work out for themselves why something works. And the reason something works may be something entirely different from what you (or Hubbard) may think. Each person may have his or her reason why a specific method works. This fusing of methodology and philosophy and this overselling of personal filters seems to work against potentially working tools.

      I say give the tools freely and let people try them out for themselves and see if they work. And sell a world view to those who want that as food for thought. This package called Scientology is a mess. KHTK is going down the same route.

      • The only methods that I have highlighted are MINDFULNESS and SUBJECT CLEARING. The philosophy is my own and I don’t expect anybody to follow it blindly.

        I recommend that people think for themselves and do not take anything for granted, either what i write or the book that you are showcasing.

        .

          • They are separate. They are not confusing in KHTK at all. One can always ask me for clarification.

            The tools so far are MINDFULNESS and SUBJECT CLEARING. The only philosophy required to apply these tools exist in two simple documents written to describe them.

            Of course, I have experimented with Scientology and Idenics processes to see how they would work with mindfulness. That has been a lot of fun.

            .

          • Geir: “I would advocate a Complete separation of method and philosophy to not tarnish the tools by personal opinions.”

            What about all the evidence that an educated pc gets better results? I would say that’s because ANY methodology is built on some system of thought. Therefore, an understanding of that system can assist in the correct, rather than rote, application of the methodology.

            Nevertheless, I would agree that at some point the ideal scene would be for a person to work out the underlying principles for himself – and this should be encouraged from the beginning. (That would align with the “early LRH”.)

            Also, it stands to reason that the most workable methodologies would be the ones that are based on the greatest amount of truth – even though it is only metaphorically expressed, as with all constructs. With a truly workable methodology, a person would eventually be able to “make it his own” according to his own insight.

    • V……Thus, there is no developed intelligence at the early stages of the universe. Intelligence has developed along with the universe as part of it. “
      Dear V… since there is speculation and by many others who have the reality and the belief that there are countless universe out there occupied by beings who are not like humans and an these Planets the occupants are not intelligent but their knowledge and abilities far superior to any humans.
      So to say when ” intelligence” have developed or not is simple PURE assumption.

    • v… LIGHT AND AWARNESS IS ASSOSIATED? Now.. I cant e that at all. I never needed to use flashlight to become aware of something.
      That is huge assumption!.
      ABOUT THE DEVELOPEMENT OF HUMAN INTELIGENCE!!!!
      Wish you would not said that.
      Animals, never ever shit on the same place where they bed in. But look at the humans, they are determined to destroy the Planet and they do it with gusto.. Not only the Planet but self and others, by poisoning the very food which nurture the body and the soil it self where they grow it.
      They poison their body with alcohol, drugs of every kind, and their mind with degrading filth in the form of porno among other things. Human intelligence? That has not been invented here.. yes it has but not recognised by too many therefore it is only in use by the few who realised the value.
      Intelligent reality do not destroy.

  5. Fascinating presentation, Geir! And certainly made more so via the intriguing artwork, which may lure a previously untapped market into reading this book. (me included!). Somehow though, I harbor the sneaking suspicion that we end up in yet another “hamster wheel’ to nowhere – determined by our ‘search’ – to find the ‘unknowable’.

    Vinay, of course, will undoubtedly dispute / refute any personal involvement within such a ‘wheel’ :)

    One is reminded of that Elron quote in such matters:
    ….”Mystery — is the glue, that sticks a being to things.” :)

  6. a comic seems like a better medium for philosophy than others, haven’t read this yet so won’t comment on the comic yet

    these comments remind me of the elrons axiom about affinity being a scale… down to close proximity but mystery

    there’s some sort of graph or lecture i recall that made sense but again had no real explanation i know of regarding that awkward circular relationship in the polar convergence between singularity and plurality, mystery is an inverting harmonic or something goofy, if someone actually understood it I would expect an short explanation in simple terms would form

    • Someguy: “…that awkward circular relationship in the polar convergence between singularity and plurality…”

      I’m not sure I understand exactly what you’re referring to – but see if this excerpt from 8-8008 relates to it:

      “One of the control mechanisms which has been used on thetans is leading them to believe that when they rise in potential they will find themselves ‘one with the universe.’ This is distinctly untrue. Thetans are individuals. They do not, as they rise up the scale, merge with other individualities. They have the power of becoming anything they wish while still retaining their own individuality. They are, first and foremost, themselves.

      “There is evidently no Nirvana. It is the feeling that one will ‘merge’ and lose his own individuality that restrains the thetan from attempting to remedy his lot. His merging with the rest of the universe would be his becoming matter. This is the ultimate in cohesiveness and the ultimate in affinity and is at the lowest point of the tone-scale. One declines into a ‘brotherhood with the universe.’ “When he goes upscale, he becomes more and more an individual capable of creating and maintaining his own universe.” (Scientology 8-8008)

    • Yes, someguy (hope we get to find out ‘who’ -someday) :)

      Elron, as we had gotten to know him — through his phenomenal ‘output’ — ie ‘research’ work in the trenches, tossing out what must have been countless ‘disappointments’, that simply didn’t work. However, no one could ever accuse him of being short of imagination or creativity, or especially dogged determination to FIND what works! — hence your standard auditor Tech, which works invariably, according to all of us who are no longer troubled by those previous items of ‘case’.

      The items you require clarification on, are not on offer without a bit more ‘homework’ – which you can check out in O-8 The quickest grasp though, may result from the 1&-a-half pages of the topic ‘scales’, on p.99 -100. The other ‘scales’ may then begin to make more sense, especially KNOW TO MYSTERY SCALE (1953), and the expanded version.

      Let me know how it goes, bro’ will you? :)

  7. Ideas gain expression, form and reality by consistency of attention and thus beliefs, created by the meanings we convey to the inner symbols objectified in the outer world. This is directly linked to our conclusions about ourselves, others and the universe we share.
    We can also destroy and create beliefs at will, although some appear to be more challenging and we indeed experience them as such.
    And by the way, Jonathan Livingston Seagull is one of favorite books too.

  8. V…….”I have presented my reality. There is only one overall universe and spirituality-physicality are relative””
    :)… we only have one Universe what we believe in. For you that is the only universe and the same was for Abraham, Newton, Evita Peron, and my cat Szuszu… what we know believe in that is our universe, I cant see Sahara from here, so it do not exist for me. Very simple, my Universe is. Since I dont have TV, I dont listen to news my universe is a very quiet lovely place full of beautiful things… Mind you on occasional ant gets into my pants and takes a chunk out of my hind.. and I am allergic to their venom acid, so we are at war!

  9. Pingback: Personality tests and recruitment | Geir Isene - Helping people outperform themselves

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