This blog post is inspired by one of the many excellent contributors here, our One and Only Maria.
In my blog post “Scientology thought experiment“, I asked about what the future could hold if Scientology as described by L. Ron Hubbard would conquer the world. My conclusion went like this:
The CoS will expand into every corner of the world as it cannot do anything but expand per policy. It aims to free every person on Earth. And by the use of Scientology tech since that is actually the only way to set someone free. Everyone should then be a scientologist and would be on the org board of the CoS. They would then have to be on a regular course schedule per week and would be subject to ethics actions if not. If they do any out ethics in life, they would again be subject to the ethics tech. They would train and they would go up the Bridge. They would enter into leadership positions in the government and in all spheres of influence. And again, if they did anything unethical, they would be subject to ethics, tech and admin. They would be required to use policy to handle admin situations, and as LRH admin tech is in fact the only workable admin tech there is, using anything else would have to come under the heading of squirreling or out-ethics. Thus admin tech would be in use most everywhere. Leaders would lead according to LRH scriptures as doing otherwise is again counter intentional and out ethics. It should only be natural that they would want to be ethical as LRH has laid out, use the tech standardly and apply policy appropriately. Out ethics is treated with the ethics gradient and there would be a swifter justice system than the cumbersome judicial system we see in our society today. As no Scientologist could take another Scientologist to court (forbidden by policy), then our system of Law and Order would naturally be replaced by LRH’s ethics and justice policies. Every citizen would deem it only natural to write KRs on any outpoint they see, be it in the work place, in the Church structure, amongst friends or in families. PTSness is thus reported as per policy as it is a crime to do otherwise. No criticism of Scientology would ever happen as that is a suppressive act, and no one would leave Scientology and tell about it as that, too would be suppressive. No one would create any problems, and no one would have any unkind thoughts of LRH, Mary Sue or the CoS Management. Wars would be handled before any ARC break could escalate to that level of conflict. No drugs would be peddled, and the insane would be given the Introspection Rundown and then be given the proper auditing actions to again return to the Bridge and continue on their road to freedom. There would be no splinter groups as the CoS would hold it’s LRH given monopoly on all the tech. Psychiatry would long since have been obliterated and the same with psychology or any other practice targeted by LRH’s orders, advices or policy. Other religions would be tolerated, but only to the point where they would not in any way interfere with the progress up the Bridge for any individual. Christians would be crammed according to the Class VIII tapes as LRH says Jesus Christ did not exist. People would be free to worship their version f the 8th dynamic as LRH touched very little upon that subject. Since we would have a perfectly run society, KSW and Keep Admin Working would be enforced to ensure that no working installation would ever be tampered with and fall astray. It would be a society in harmony, of fun, laughter, ARC and respect for LRH. It would be a world without war, criminality and insanity. It would be a world that all of us have desired since millions of years.
Maria summed up the big thread with:
I’d like to suggest that this OP is not a thought experiment at all. It is a logic experiment. It runs in fits and starts because it is attempting to construct a world out of illogical and fallacious thinking. The C of S IS the real thought experiment, carried out in physical reality.
And then she proposed her own thought experiment that several contributors voted to put up as a separate blog post:
I am conducting my own thought experiments in knowing how to know. Part of that has been sorting out EXACTLY what were the effective agencies of change that resulted genuine “wins” or insights while engaging in Scientology processes. I am not interested in theories or models. I am interested in WHAT OCCURRED that effected / resulted in a change of consciousness / reality in ways seen to be beneficial.
Current questions I am examining are:
- Why was the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 so life changing for many?
- What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
- Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
- What exactly happens when there is a floating needle?
- What exactly happens when a person has VGIs? i.e. what have they “acquired” that produces such a massive sense of satisfaction?
- What is the ultimate punishment – i.e. when we want to really punish someone, what do we do to really PUNISH them. Death penalty doesn’t count – it ends the game. I am thinking that by observing what the ultimate punishment is, we can extrapolate its opposite and work out what the ultimate reward probably is.
- What activities will invariably result in bad indicators? And what are the opposite activities to those?
- For those who have moments of extreme “illumination” or “enlightenment,” what happened? What shift occurred? How do you see the world differently?
And so the question becomes: What worked? And why?
Geir Isene - uncut 
I think ‘what we resist persists’ is at the root of emotional problems and the tech may be the best attempt yet at moving someone away from resistance. First you need to find what is being resisted and then use techniques to increase a persons willingness to experience that thing. Perhaps the reactive minds aberative force comes from our resistance of it?
Non-judgmental viewpoint and non resistance are the keys. Please see
KHTK 16: Some Directed Processes
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I have a similar take on this. I don’t call it resistance, but I could. I call it inconsistency or friction if you will which of course would be in line with your resistance.
We seem to have collected a mind chock full of considerations. Some of these are useful at the level of games. Many of them seem to be at crossed purposes with one another and are not useful. Some are destructive but unknowingly so. We hold onto and savor ALL of it like the horders that we are and consider that all the considerations have value. When I look at my mind, I would say it is analogous to a wad of steel wool. It is a wad with many layers of threads until the layers upon layers produce a course, scratchy, homogenous wad. When I audit, I look at one thread at a time. Beginning with the end closest to my attention, I chase it down, burn it down if you will. I mostly always learn something about what I think about things that I didn’t know that I thought or that I knew.
Why does this work for me? Looking directly at my thoughts” seems to make them lose their substance, solidity, and value to me. Looking directly at my thoughts about things seem to exploit inconsistencies in them. When I spot an inconsistency it seems to pair up with another datum of comparable magnitude and the seeing of them side by side seems to make them vanish.
If we do not clean house, if we never take out the trash, then the house will fill up with debris more and more until we are no longer able to move at all within the house.
Thanks for the link Vinaire, I’ll check that out.
Yes good analogy Chris! Another good analogy is a computer with many programs running in the background that are no longer needed and are taking up processing power.
On TR0 I panicked when I first sat down and realised I couldn’t distract myself from my thoughts by turning on the TV or eating or whatever I would normally do. Actually it was a realisation to me how many things I did to run away from my thoughts! A big win was realising that these ‘dark thoughts’ became wispy and light when I was willing to experience them. They stuck around when I resisted them but floated on by when I faced and experienced them.
yes! too much background processing and a hard drive badly in need of defragmentation! — perfect.
Defrag!!
Puts me in mind of a computer that is just loaded down with far too many resident programs loaded into RAM, a seriously messed up registry, memory bleeds trapping RAM, viruses and trojans intercepting processes and altering them, no more room for caching – slow, clunky, prone to blue screen system.
Yes, and I have often felt that the PC was either deliberately, unknowingly or naturally modeled after the component parts of the human mind. Counter-intuitively, learning about my PC has been an aid in understanding the parts of my mind. All of it goes together to form, as you called it, integrated science.
Maria’s questions are excellent. They go straight to the heart of everything.
For Buddha it was LOOKING and MINDFULNESS at the heart of everything.
Let’s see what we find here.
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Maria’s questions focus on what made us into Scientologists.
What were the causes for what we were *feeling* that made us decide that “Scientology worked”?
This is what people get stuck in, and what they do not want to lose when their “eternity” is threatened by the Church. It’s what people are buying when they lay down money for a service they have no idea what it deals with – like an OT level. This is what people chase by going on and on in Scientology, long after the wins have stopped, but craving to get them back. It’s what makes Scientologists look away from “entheta” out of fear that it all might not be true, and the “wins” may go away.
This is the opiate we all craved from Scientology.
It will be interesting to see how this thread develops. A group *can* develop truth, no matter what LRH tried to sell us in KSW. It happens every day, and has happened since the dawn of the social nature of the hive mind of mankind.
Interesting take. I’m with you.
I’d be interested in YOUR answers to the questions Al.
Seeking out new viewpoints?
Hubbard says that’s high on the scale.
Good for you, Dennis.
What were the causes for what we were *feeling* that made us decide that “Scientology worked”?
… reduction of confusion on an immediate basis, and the hope of gaining super abilities on a long term basis…
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Alanzo ….”Group can develope truth “………group developes agreements which is declared by the group that it is the truth, but that is not necessarily the truth, but that truth only is for that group.
2. EP .- The being stops creating-counter-creating. Ridges vanish, attention is freed, theoretically would include increased ability to look and to focus more deeply, thus becoming more self-determined. This in my understanding happens in the lower bridge.
In practice what seems to happen is that the being is freed of some fixed ideas, but still needs something to hold on to, and gets fixed on new stable data, hopefully more consistent, but also can still be coerced or “educated” to look at things according to new group agreements, losing it´s self-determinism again, geting out of one jail just to step into a new one.
A self-determined being wouldn´t need to be given any stable data, cause he would be able to create it, or not have any.
4. F/N .- The meter measures resistance, the floating needle, and more deeply the floating T/A indicate absence of resistance.
8. Non resistance at higher and higher levels.
Rafael, you seem to be using “self-determined being” as a stable datum… 😉
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I use Self-determinism as an arbitrary “unit” on a slide rule, which has a limited workability, it, for me is only a symbol used as a relative measure, but is not “the thing”.
Because….
How can we define “What worked”? How do we achieve certainty?
Some sort of slide rule is needed, otherwise we will be just moving in circles unknowingly, the slide rule at least tells us in which part of the circle we are, BUT we must not forget it is just a symbol and not the “real thing”.
Alanzo made a GREAT point reminding us we are looking for what made us into Scientologists……. What (WE CONSIDER) worked, and why?
I use it this way,(which I believe is the same way it should be used in basic Scientology, correct me if I´m wrong, but it seems to me Scientologists consider this slide rule not the symbol but the real thing):
People at the bottom of the scale are (or, more exactly, seem to be) other-determined, assume fixed behavior as slaves or robots, MEST is other-determined, behaves following fixed sets of rules (The laws of Nature). On a cycle of action this would be the level of stop, solidity.
People at the middle of the scale seem to be completely self-determined, are playing inside different games, assuming fixed positions from which they exert force and advance towards defined goals. On a cycle of action It is a level of change, fluidity as a liquid, increasing towards complete fluidity as a gas, and then….
The top of the scale, Start of the cycle…….Pure potential? ……Creativity?…….. it cannot be placed inside any framework……. Unknowable?…..maybe yes, maybe not…… To me, it is not a question we have to answer, it just is, or is not.
Wholy shit!
Of what can we be certain, then?
Only of what we create?………how can we be certain that “we” created it?
If at this point you think I´m crazy…….don´t worry!, I´m enjoying this madly!….
I mean I´m having a whale of a time!!! 🙂
I´ve just discovered on which stable datum I´m standing on right now Vin:
I can consider myself as cause or as effect in the cycle of action…..
And that defines if I consider something worked or not: What helps me consider myself cause works, and what does not help me consider myself cause does not work……..Shit! now I´m giving status of “cause” to whatever I consider “works”Ha ha ha!
Now, seriously talking, solutions must be find at the level of change, they must exist inside the game which is being solved.
That is why I use the concept of self-determinism, it lies inside games.
Looking from the top of the scale there are no solutions, seems to me that from there everything dissolves into static. Out of the game is …..well…. it is out of the game and that is it.
I would like to see self as a cell of a bigger organism. In that context, I wonder how self-determinism would appear. Will self-determinism and other-determinism average out in some way? Will we then have a neutrally-determined universe? I am just looking for some inconsistencies here..
Anything you want to define would be relative to something else, and ultimatety it would end up as part of something circular. At the ultimate level, one would simply have to step off this merry-go-round. We are on a merry-go-round no matter how much certainty we seek. The only trick is stepping off, and the way to step off is keep recognizing inconsistencies.
What made us into a Scientologist? I think it was simply the desire to get out of confusion. Scientology brought many inconsistencies to view and brought much relief to thinking by simplifying it. But what resulted was a dependency on Scientology, and that is where things went wrong. We don’t need faith in Scientology. We need faith in ourselves to continue doing what LRH did. We need to keep spotting inconsistencies and keep simplifying knowledge as a result.
Scientologists consider Scientology the real thing. That is the greatest illusion. The real thing is the ability that produced Scientology. On the whole that ability seems to be spotting inconsistencies, because that is the only way to move from complexity to simplicity. Hopefully this thread is going to bring insight into that ability.
For some reason, the idea of game and games condition turns me off. I don’t like to think in terms of games. I don’t know why. I also don’t like the ideas of potential and creation. To me these concepts have become so ubiquitous that they seem to hiding a more fundamental realization waiting to be discovered.
There are many directions from which to approach the fundamentals. But all these approaches seem to have in common the spotting of inconsistencies .
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Good post Vinaire.
Right on Vinny!
You made a beautiful post here, even as you try to make nothing out of yourself,
Ha, Ha Ha!!!!!
Just kidding! I loved this post 🙂
So, what woked and why?
1.Something which is a common denominator in all my wins include spotting of inconsistencies, both in training and in processing.
2. As part of the EP of processes, I recovered faith in myself, certainty (when I needed certainty), even sometimes based on stable datums which were false, but anything which made me consider myself more at cause (when I needed to feel at cause) was considered a big advance.
Yes, you are going very crazy — I’m with you. And you gave me an interesting idea — maybe you meant to — about the top of the scale . . . everything dissolves into static. My question is if the wave-function is static? I have been tinkering with this each evening doing TR0 on the snow on my TV. (Much more economical than paying for cable.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_(video)
So I am staring away at this snow which is sparkling very fast then slower, then the snow sort of becomes dots, then the dots migrate into shapes. Everything continuing in the black, grey, and white dots. But the dots are migrating together squeezing and undulating into full screen sized shapes, characters such as X’s, Y’s, K’s, slanted lines, wavy lines, horizontal lines, some shadowy shapes resembling faces, bodies, and spheres; a couple times the sphere has become 3D and bulges outward toward me showing about a half sphere sticking out of the surface of the TV; I am definitely trying to do nothing, exert no influence, creating no effects. Then the thought settles on me that the perception is in my mind alone and that automaticities (running programs or thoughts) are causing the perceived effects. Then I play with the perceptions and realize that I can influence their duration, drift, and shape, not 100% but some and enough where I am convinced it is by my will.
And the thought strikes me whether this ubiquitous noise that is described as the “background radiation left over from the ‘big bang'” is also or instead some type of marker for the wave-function.
And you thought you were going crazy?
I like those ideas very much, I will work on them.
Yes Man, why there is something in stead of nothing?
That is the basic question in physics.
The process of creation, static to kinetic. Kinetic is mechanical, the simplest mechanism being a wave.
Is the wave function static?
Static, then a point, then a line, then a plane, then a wave…..
A point is a low order of static, we have to consider it is not moving to grasp it, same with lines, planes, volume, waves (they move, but within a certain fixed pattern, otherwise would seem chaotic and not understandable), solids, ridges, engrams, and so on.
The wave function seems to be our attempt to create a mathematical symbol to connect something as close as possible to nothingness with somethingness, the collapse being the transition between one state and the other.
Nothingness would be a field of infinite probabilities which would seem to be chaotic to us.
The background radiation represent to me chaos in the process of creation of fixed patterns…..
Oh shit…. I have to move now….(work…. I´ll give it a try….or you won´t see me arround anymore)
It´s from the theory of confusion and the stable datum, we attempt to reduce chaos by establishing a stable datum in it, and then we create a coherent structure arround it.
Which is why it is so important to understand and become one’s own “orientation point,” rather than another MEST structure (such as “home” or “momma.”)
Chris … care to tell me what is the orientation point and where is that if it has a location? most interested in your view point.
Yes, good point Elizabeth. Being one’s own orientation point is locating oneself where he chooses and when he chooses rather than compulsively having the urge to locate themself around someone or somewhere.
The alternatives are computations from the Tech Dictionary. These are aberrated considerations which a person thinks has survival value.
Example: Homesickness when a person begins to feel ill from being gone from home too long. Or the instability one feels when their lover has been out too late and that yucky feeling begins in the pit of the stomach. Or when a person is trained into a certain religion and orients his thinking to it and suddenly he goes around other people who don’t hold these opinions and tell him strange things which gives him jelly legs. Or a person is quite used to feeling that he is inside his body and during an activity suddenly feels “popped out” and becomes uncomfortable. When a person is their own orientation point, they will tend to be able to grant beingness and are comfortable in many surroundings, and are more comfortable communicating on many subjects even if they have little familiarity.
Maybe the basic characteristic of an orientation point is that it is creating the space arround it?
Yes, seems good. Part creation and part of ownership of any space . . . going into that “creation mode” just sent me into a twirl proving to myself that I don’t quite have it.
Rafael this could be help =Of what can we be certain, then? Only of what we create?………how can we be certain that “we” created it?
Yes, there is the one-ness, that exists. But one knows when one is the Source.
There is no doubt about that, since one know who one is, one’s own power, one’s ability. The ability is the key. What one can do that is the power=source. But one could care less who claim the same. There is no value in having, owning, creating, As you said, IS. Yet you know…………
Yes Elizabeth, we are one in that. Having is at the end of the cycle and fixes us to MEST. Certainty on the effect side is just our need to have a solid ground to stand on, and certainty on the other side is pure creativity.
1. I found I was seeing the other person without analyzing, judging, filtering, judging what I was seeing and when that happened I came to a steady state of calmness, neither reaching or withdrawing, no dispersal, no resistance. I stopped thinking ABOUT what I was doing. Thinking ABOUT what I needed to do later, what I had done earlier, what I might look like to the other, about looking silly or foolish to others. My attention came off my thinking, off myself, off my attitudes, off sensations, off the amount of time passed. I felt “positioned” and focused. That was the result of TR0. On bullbait, I stopped flickering in and out of awareness, based on what the other was doing and found that I could maintain my state no matter what they were doing. TR1 and 2 continued that, with the added awareness that if I did not include the other in my awareness, I could neither really listen or really acknowledge. I literally wasn’t doing anything else than what I was doing. No divided attention. No dropped attention. No scattering of attention.
I had no mayor wins on TR´S (and spent 8 months just doing TR´S on a special ITO pilot in1979)
Reason: Probably MU´s, but could have been also PTP´s or simply too low case level.
This appears to be WHAT you experienced, presumably as the EP?
I have no clue as to the WHY you experienced this.
One of the marvels of Scientology processes, is that they sometimes produce better results than one would expect from the theoretical viewpoint, some of my Pc´s had amazing, life changing releases with the simplest processes like self-analysis lists, objectives, the question: what part of that problem could you be responsible for?, and things like that.
Probably the best win I had in all my Scientology auditing, was some strange kind of a release which almost blew me off this universe: suddenly, the whole image I was perceiving of my auditor and the auditing room became smaller, and then smaller, and then smaller again….. that together with the biggest line-charge I ever had, and then an amazing state of joy and freedom.
In what part of my Bridge would you think it happened?
In my first session, in the first process, which is designed to help the Pc find his auditor. The auditing question was: Look at me. Who am I?
Of course, I was so green, I had no idea what was it, (I still don´t, and it never happened again) but I imagined my auditor knew exactly what was happening to me. Actually he only saw me laughing like mad and ended the session. The examiner probably reported VVGI´s and F/N, no comments, and I never mentioned any part of it to my auditor or anyone else (Pc not allowed to talk about his case).
I experienced the same what you have written while I read it……..
Yes the unexpected results . . . I’ve been noticing this since the first session I ever had. I always seemed to have some expectation going into session but the nature and character of auditing is such that each revealed item and each cognition both exceeded my expectations and also was something that I couldn’t have guessed at. Of course if I could have guessed at what was going to happen then I suppose the session wouldn’t have had any purpose.
Rafael that process was used by the implanters to make one believe one is small. The space was made to look smaller and smaller, shrinking in size. If the being believed which he did, he was in the center than one have become small and remained small. Therefore the being was made to feel helpless, insignificant, and useless in every way.
In the session you have blown that. That was a huge win to regain space.
That implant was used in many different ways, by having one power taken away too, that one was just one out or the many.
But here is a BIT more the other side of the coin, since where is the minus the plus is always present too.
THAT same process was used to cause reverse affects, to make= look or feel bigger-overwhelming in order to cause just that. For something to overpower the being till that being could not stand it any longer and become unconscious. Drugs do the same this day, so is enough alcohol or a large impact of some kind on the body.
Thank you Elizabeth, just reading your post gave me a release. (as it frecquently happens)
I have often wondered how does one gets fixed inside a determined spatial frame of reference. Interesting subject, no doubt.
Thank you for your explanations – but I am looking for what exactly happened to YOU and what others have told you happened to them. What did you personally experience? Not why, not an abstraction of principle, but what your direct experience & change was.
Looking to the other persons is the magical key here, as persons have a natural shared escence as beings and local cultures are just noise to see. An exercise to start is look to little childs around. You will know what i am talking about.
Here’s an email I got from Elizabeth just this morning. I got her permission to post it.
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What I have achieved is beyond comprehension, therefore can’t be seen, experienced, not real, non-existent, therefore the words which form the concepts have no meanings. I have read a great deal on Geir’s thread [the previous one], many of the comments. My reality, how I see the change which will be brought on by the TECH is so different that not one person has written about yet. It is already in motion, it is going strong. The tech not only affected here the planet but is out there in the Universe.
The Tech and auditing spread because of the OT material… These beings without the body are being audited while regular people are being audited at the same time. The person’s cognition’s are their cognitions, even in the lower levels this happens not only on OT3 and above. These beings in number are huge, phenomenal. There are immense amounts of these beings who have had some auditing, some millions of them had great amount up to OT 7-8 and many many millions have the very same amount as I have had so far.There are these beings all over in the universe and not just here on this Planet. Here, now they emerge, taken on new bodies and these audited beings partially have regained abilities far beyond the norm.
Incredible young singers, artists are out there voices so perfect. Audited beings do become artistic since they move up, uptone toward the aesthetic band. Being audited these beings have lost large chunk of their bank, but there are also problems. Because of that these beings don’t agree with the laws, the rules, and don’t like to be controlled. To these beings the values have fallen away, that is depends on how far they have been audited. I could write pages on this. (Elizabeth Hamre endlesstringofpearls@gmail.com )
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She also wanted me to say that she is open to any comments or questions, here or by email.
To me, the EP of a being audited is the disappearance of the being.
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Vinaire – what I am looking for with these questions is what did actually happen, for you, not what the ideal scene may or may not be. I submit to you that since you are posting on this blog, you have not yet disappeared.
I am sure the realization will come… We just need to be totally non-judgmental and be willing to experience anything.
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I agree, but I like it better if it includes the freedom to be or un-be.
That is what I mean… disappearance and reappearance. Disappearance doen’t necessarily mean disappearance for ever. There is rejunivation… totally new beingness.
As-is create… as-is uncreate… both provide a powerful kick.
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“As-is create… as-is uncreate… both provide a powerful kick. ”
I love this, uhhhh, nothing but a truck full of stimulation, righ up my allay. …….
Vinaire the being can’t disappear since the being has no mass, only mass-energy can disappear, dissolve as in session as-ised. The being itself in intangible I believe you know this already.
In theory Vin or in practice?
In theory, of course, when consistency is practiced. I cannot see it any other way.
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Being is a consideration, and a consideration is tangible. That is how it makes sense to me in terms of consistency and from the reference point of the unknowable.
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Vinaire, it seems very clear to me that you have not experienced this yourself as yet. This is what you believe will happen. I am asking what has ACTUALLY happened for YOU to date. Not what could be, not what makes sense, not what you have extrapolated what must be or is consistent but WHAT HAS HAPPENED by your very experience. As you have outlined it, it is a theory, one that you cannot personally yet confirm. Am I right in saying this?
I have experienced total blackout under anesthesia with no accountability of time. That gives me a reference point of sorts about what might happen when beingness disappears and then reappears. It is all mental. To me beingness is a mental phenomenon.
What has actually happened to me by experience is that I can go through adversity with greater aplomb. If there is any depression or misemotion it is neither deep nor long lasting. I may scream and thrash about, but I recover much faster. There is less rigidity in the beingness. It seems to have simplified considerably over the years, and the thinking has become much clearer. My interests are more focused into researching inconsistencies among fundamentals.
Not bad. I like this example. I have a similar reverse example when I was supposedly under but was not and another example like your own. However, you understand that you must allow for another possibility and that is that the being, considering that he is MEST, that he is mind, experiences the shutdown of the mind as the end of his beingness? So he experiences that suspension of space and time as just that — a shutdown.
Vinaire………”I have experienced total blackout under anesthesia with no accountability of time” That do not means what you think it means. You have moved into the drug caused energy where was nothing but drug effect. Sorry …… If you would go into session you could recall exactly what was going on dow to the tiniest detail. Auditing is about to confront those incidents which hold the being there in the “un-known” yet get stuck on the track..and cant move on……
Yes – good way of saying it…
The only problem I have with this is that I have personally retrieved information that was impressed during incidents of complete blackout under anesthesia. So the only thing I can figure is that the body perceptics are shut off along with the pain receptors. As well, there are now countless experiences relayed to us by people who were under the total blackout of death, who were brought back to life, including descriptions of the operating procedures during a time when there were no signs of life any more. So this may very well be related to dependence on body perceptions. Then again, maybe not.
So he experiences that suspension of space and time as just that — a shutdown.
This happens naturally in deep sleep also. You hit the pillow and wake up the next second fully refreshed. The 8 hours that passed just vanished for you.
The question is how does one return back to the “same” beingness? It seems that there is a mental structure which represents beingness. One leaves it and then returns to it.
My supposition is that, in Nirvana, even that mental structure gets dissolved. One may return to a new beingness after every sojourn into unknowable.
One may leave somewhat of a mental structure behind to come back to. But that mental structure can be as flimsy as he wants to make it.
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Question #1 is the alpha and omega: the comm course was life changing because it introduced the idea of confronting comfortably without a via. Of that with which one can confront and communicate, one ceases to be the effect. This is the reason auditing works all the way from the contact assist to releasing the source of charge on Solo NOTs. Communication is why a ridge will blow and when the ability to communicate is in balance a needle will float: the thetan is willing to experience inflow and outflow.
Maria, here is my reality
1……Learned to confront for the first time, to be there and to see what really is…..with that I have learned to view the universe as is…. I had yes, life changing change with that course. Total key out……. from then on I wanted more and wanted permanency of that state.
2…….total understanding for the first time how something was created existed till then. The as-is is see-ing, see-ing without any addition energy being stuck to that item, there are no falsity therefore it vanishes as when it is vied-confronted, the item seen in its original form -creation. Only things can exist, to remain when added to, modified-altered- changed in any way.
3……. Communication in 2wc is stimulation, nothing more. Stronger, heavier the energy, or new in form: first time experienced in that content, bigger the affect. Also it depends on the reality, the need of the individual what that stimulus is, or should be, what tickles the fancy….
4……. The part of the bank the energy was erased or the being has key-out. The needle indicates at that moment there are no barriers, walls-thought to which the being is stuck too. Those intervals usually short periods since the MEST is heavy, jammed solid with interwoven interlocking items-thoughts walls which move- close in very fast.
In fact what has happened when one chain of item is erased there is more breathing space for other items to expand that is the reason it seems the higher state the being achieves looks like dramatize more. Not really, just can express self-more freely.
5……. Good god!!! Paradise regained even if only for moments!
At that moment the Bank is gone vanished not pressing on the being, the fear, the thoughts, the ARCB’s, MEST is gone, so are all the considerations, the Universe whatever that contained was there, is gone.
In that moment in that precious second the being is free has attained the NATIVE STATE. He has a glimpse of true self the realization what means to be the reality what is intangible and infinite, has become an outsider free floating total being. Since only the MEST to be identify with the MEST makes one incomplete since MEST is the created therefore has its beginning and its end, limited. No self-respecting spiritual being can be happy too long under those conditions.
6……What is the ultimate punishment.!!!!!!!!!!
Look around and observe where are the church members at on the tone scale and cry… Sob… Through over your head a black shroud, and mourn…….. They were promised the most coveted precious item THE SPIRITUAL FREEDOM!!!!
Look around and read the blogs…… The blame, apathy, despair, anger sickness, in body and in soul…. etcccc….. The promise did not come about, it has not happened, they now believe it has not existed in the first place……that they were cheated………. again……. Because they do not understand what is was in the first place….. freedom has its price, It has taken the beings eons to get into this mass, few hundred of auditing hours…well…..Miracles do not happen that way……. There is no magic wand to erase zillions of different game conditions pile up on top of each other…… a energy potpourri.…auditing must continually go on to handle daily incoming stuff=life –experiences…in order to become free, and to remain free eternally….
Punishment cannot be greater than losing hope especially about something one has waited for who knows forever? Since each sufferer out there who sits and wallows in apathy agony, despaired and sick in their soul, have known before they got into the scientology that they “needed and wanted that freedom” they needed and wanted that change, for that they were willing to give up family, possessions, everything that had value in order to gain the elusive intangible. When hope is taken away, the hope to be spiritually free of the prisons walls of the MEST Universe.. Well……. I could not think of a greater punishment… to be given to a person…….
But …… The Path is open, anyone who care to walk the walk, can… But the past must be looked at as it was nothing more than a learning experience. Since that is only that…. No more…..
7……. Nothing here on that…….. Since I believe in handling everything to the vgi’s, to cognitions. but to others when the goal is not attained there is sliding down happens, a notch below as was the person before……
8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
The moments-hours weeks were only in the first 20 years, but ever since fear has totally despaired from my universe, I no longer have the MEST as my partner, my reason for living- existing.
When one need no eyes to see or ears to hear, the Universe becomes a different place in one’s view, reality. A tinny place, which hold nothing, of one would want or need, in order to be…….. has no importance and value.
Has lost its meaning…
Enlightenment is when one has the reality not only knows the words but experience it: what is Intangible and Infinite.
Thank you Elizabeth!
The trill of it all!
TR0, done correctly, boils down to LOOKING, which KHTK is all about. TR0 was life changing for me. Here is a thread that I started on this subject.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?1719-TR-0-DEBUG
I was the TRs Course Word Clearer at Flag in the late seventies.
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Huh?
I thought TR0 was ‘being there’ … I don’t remember anything about ‘Looking’
Wow, I’d better re-read my pack
I am with you on that, but I dont have the pack……I cant recall LOOKING my self, just be there…nothing..
What is CONFRONTING? It is to face without flinching or avoiding. It is holding the ground in the environment that is there. It is to stay in total harmony by letting the environment flow as it may. It is just being an observer and experiencer. It is not trying to create any effect. In fact, it is not trying anything. It is just letting things happen. it is letting whatever is there simply unwind itself. This may even make the beingness disappear.
Looking is observing and experiencing and letting things unwind as they may.
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Wholy shit!
I needed you at the ITO TR´s pilot in 1979!
I just read that link you gave Vinaire … that’s sure some squirrely shit you applied.
Sheesh … what the heck is this?
” Presence of pictures, mass, somatics etc. does not mean that one cannot maintain optimum attention. A person’s attention can be optimum while mind is presenting pictures masses, somatics etc. in continual succession. This would be the ideal scene when doing TR0. It is only when this ideal scene of TR0 is maintained that these pictures, masses, and somatics will blow. ”
A re-definition of what the ‘ideal scene’ of TR) is? What ideal scene?? How about a Major Stable Win??
And this??
” To debug a student on TR0, I first cleared him on the word ATTENTION as above.
Then I had him give real-life examples of
(a) An attention which is “becoming too fixed without sweeping”
(b) An attention which is “unfixed and sweeping at random”
This was done until the student had excellent grasp of how attention became aberrated. Then I had him look at how his attention was when he was doing TR0.
Then I had the student work out how attention could be kept in an optimum, unaberrated state on TR 0.
Then I used to word clear the student on the excerpt from HCOB 2 June 1971 CONFRONTING, given above,
This pretty much used to handle most any questions regarding somatics on TR 0.
It was rarely that I had to refer to Scientology Axiom # 1 and word clear it. ”
And This?
” The following is what I shall recommend:
(1) When participating on ESMB, take an occasional break to do TR0 solo.
(2) If attention has become “too fixed without sweeping” then simply recognize it.
(3) If attention has become “unfixed and sweeping at random” then, again, simply recognize it.
(4) Continue with TR0 until you feel calm and comfortable.
(5) Conclude solo TR0.
(6) Resume your next activity. ”
/facepalm
No wonder the persons were not winning. I never heard what is solo TR0 till now and I did communication course 9 times since they were inclided with the courses at ST Hill.
Communication course was fantastic I suffered through all the somatics aches and pains, tears rolled, nose running, and when finally they were gone, it was heaven, I could be just there.
Each time I did them was very different, new, I had wins galore, Loved every minute, Just to be there, keyed out everything. But bull baiting, was both ways, that was incradible to take and give communication openly ……..opened up my small world, since I was very shy those days..
Wow, Elizabeth…
Who said the people on TRs Course were not winning? Even David Mayo sent cases, who were not winning in HGC, to me to be debugged with TR0 word clearing that I was doing.
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I am glad you had a win and have a good recall…….
More fundamental to TR0 is Vipassana meditation. That is how I approached TR0 from the very beginning. I didn’t even know about Vipassana mediatation then. It was actually the definition of ATTENTION by LRH in Technical Dictionary, which brought everything together for me.
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2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
I experience a shift from being in time and in the location I am in, to a timelessness and locationless, simultaneously I “see” the source of what is being addressed and I have an “aha!” Often there’s an OMG!!! And then it dissolves to nothing and as it dissolves to nothing I experience a series of shifts in how I “see.” Sometimes the shifts go on for days at a time and when they finally subside, I see things in my life in a different way – a more expansive way, greater vitality and interest. This is mirrored emotionally by feelings of joy, happiness, sometimes exhilaration, always more lively feelings. Sometimes when the shifts are happening I laugh and laugh and laugh and I find the whole episode to be funny. The laughing comes first, the explanations for why I am laughing come as I laugh. There have been some where the emotion is so powerful that I cry and cry but it is not sad crying, it is crying with an extreme joy. One series of shifts that occurred went on for several years, as it ricocheted and everything I inspected or perceived shifted if I put even the smallest amount of attention on it.
Your above comment is very real to me, the laughing and the crying. Both are incredibly powerful releases. I am sitting in one now. Few days back was the last one the uncontrollable crying the sobbing lasted 20 minutes. It was a release on accumulated heavy loss being here for the last 2500 years. The pictures went like rolling slides on the. My universe is quiet; void of energy, what I see is if not looking with the eyes. Space endless, infinite star studded space, it is not dark but zillions of light particles, they flow and have sound most beautiful sound……harmony of sound…. Occasional laughter more like a giggle-bubbling of joy….
These occurrences over the years of soloing I have found them un-forgettable. My first laughing experience while I solo audited was for 45 minutes. The sobbing once I find equally beautiful because one experiences joy and loss at the same moment of self-recovery.
7. Activities that result in BI´s: Evaluation and invalidation, which I resume in enforcing data or knowledge on people, attempting to control them.
The opposite would be to let them see and decide by themselves, allowing their self-determinism to grow freely.
Rafael as of late I have gained new, different reality on evaluation- appraisal-assessment, or invalidation. Now I look at them as a reality which I am directed toward to see and to confront. I see evaluation is a different avenue I can walk. New experience and each coming my way I treasure in order to confront and gain through that. But as I said this to me is a new experience.
Instead from the person who wants to put me down I see in that something of value,………… Also it makes me understand where the person is, on what level or tone the communication is . In other words, I too do some evaluation at the same time. One can’t happen without the other. How one would know evaluation or invalidation if that would not be done in the same instance as received?
+2
There you go. Good example. You evaluated the comment, The evaluation what is coming from the persons reality, I think that evaluation is moving with the speed of light Let me look at this further, There is a avenue I never walked on before. This action has to do with telepathy, the words are just the icing, I am looking here………….. The true evaluation is in the persons communication, which is there………. Thinking here………….. Telepathy is working 100% So the person in fact receive the communication before the words arrive………….i knew that….. But I never looked at this in this light, Thanks Geir for the evaluation, great stuff, …
I believe thought are faster than the traveling time of light, since that is energy so are thoughts but there is a difference here…………. Oh got it I can be on idiot…….. This boils down to one-ness of course, What you think I think, what you know I know, who’s was the thought the first thought in the first place, was it yours or mine? Good one, I am what you are!
Now if I know you putting me down evaluating me than I already know that thought otherwise you could not put me down no matter what. Is this makes sense? Those evaluating considerations already are in existence otherwise well, I would ask could you explain since I am from another planet and ………
Yes Elizabeth, I couldn´t agree with you more, just want to make clear the statements I´m making on this thread are about things that worked for me as I was advancing on my path, not necessarily as I see things now. Vin also thought I was using self-determinism as my stable datum in present time, which is not the case.
I consider self-determinism important as a step in overcoming other-determinism, but then other higher steps follow, also I agree inval and eval can be seen differently as one moves up, but they will allways be a factor to be considered at the begining, or as long as each person is affected by them.
What works? It varies depending on the position of each one in the Bridge. Some processes might have higher range than others, and we must define the basic factors which produce gains and their range of workability.
So far, the only basic principle which I have found underlying auditing is KHTK Looking, a distilled technique for as-isness. Or, I must say, In my particular case, it helped me understand and execute more deeply the process of as-isness than I had been able to do with Scientology processes.
I´ve had great gains with Scn auditing, some amazing ones with TROM (The Games Manual by Dennis H Stephens) and also with KHTK, their common factor: Techniques which promote as-isness.
What else lies behind the workability of processes? Why they work? That is my interest here.
Here you go Rafael this has worked for me. I believe we are a happy bunch because we CAN DO.’
Rudiments, it’s value
The simplicity of the Rudiments and understanding their value has come to me when I was well into solo auditing. Not that I have not used the Rudiments at every beginning of the sessions till then, but what I have become aware of I had continual cognitions every time I run them. The cognitions were so fantastic I could not go any further with the sessions. I had T/N, or F/T and Cogs VGI, and they were so profound I could not go back to session for days or weeks.
It was then had the life changing Cognition which made everything very simple. My realization, this new understanding has changed everything how I have seen myself, my universe and everything around me.
I walked on air for weeks before I could re-start the sessions.
COG: There was nothing more to my universe, how I felt, what was wrong, or too much or too little, the upsets, the anger, disappointments, losses, hate, dislikes, frustrations, defeats, every aspect of my life [communication was a big issue] I had no idea no understanding why those things have happened. I realized I was in that state because I had nothing more than ARCB’s which I have been piling up high for eons. That everything existed in my universe it was there because of me “not understanding, not knowing”.
I used the Rudiments with the S/buttons, run the O/W’s, I run everything on 4flows I looked for Free Spirits [beings who has no body, but just hang around] and when it was needed, I run the Rudiments on them too.
My case was running smooth, no problems each session ended with cognition.
After a while I had to extend the “suppressive” since nothing has come up any more, no charge. I used, deeply supressed, totally suppressed, completely suppressed, these were used with the other auditing questions too. Worked wonderfully.
When those questions no longer worked I went and look for hidden items, invisible, forgotten, given up, not remembered and thousands of other ways to ferret, hunt, search out the items with charge on them.
I still work the same way.
To me was the greatest fun is running and digging for O/W’s[ I run out of those, sadly]
Since I have realised how valuable it was to know every side, every ability what I ever done and to understand the reasons for all action, creation.
There is power in understanding one self, since in creation all has equal value.. It is a trill to know my abilities how I have created everything.
By human considerations my O/W’s were huge, mind boggling, yet knowing them has given more understanding of me the real me, since there is no much to one when one only look for the “GOOD SIDE” like flapping about and playing the saintly game and being so called good, that is easy, nothing one never finds and able to confront the deep heavy aberration.
One’s power is hidden and forgotten, buried deep with one’s overt, the reason for that because we fear we cause those things again.
So if we hide our power so we don’t get into mischief.[ reasoning of the uneducated being] Knowing the O/W’s about self gives the greatest case gain, with that one completes self and the power too is regained.
Rudiments, running the Rudiments is the magical wand, the key which opens the door to your universe and the knowledge.
Rafael this words here I never used them ” self-determinism ” some how they dont sit well. Perhaps because my english is simple? Or my usiverse has become very simple. Or used different words to describe what I do.
thanks for the explain above the past and now.
And I am asking what ACTUALLY happened for you when you made those gains. Not an explanation, just WHAT HAPPENED that was so valuable. And in working out what happened that was so valuable, perhaps it will be more possible to identify what might serve to facilitate more events of that nature. Maybe it won’t either, but I’d like to get this out of the realm of explanation without any description of WHAT HAPPENED that is being explained.
You are asking us to look, and describe exactly what is there non-judgmentaly at the moment of the EP, the moment of as-isness, the moment of vanishment and creation, creation and vanishment.
We should look at it with no filters whatsoever, in a scientific manner.
I´m afraid we will encounter only our own considerations.
Or we will encounter the previous agreements which were holding us back untill that moment. I believe this is what Hubbard saw there: He said something like ” we are untangling the chain of agreements which led us into the construction of this universe” in PDC # 1. I posted it in the earlier thread comparing MEST universe with the CofS. The subject of PDC #1 is creation and destruction of universes.
I hope with all my heart we can move one step ahead. We are looking at the point of origin, the cause point, and trying to see what is there and beyond. That has been my task all this lifetime.
I also believe if someone can do it, he/she will be part of this group, or IS this group.
I´m on to it. Be back in a few days.
Sorry Maria but cant tell you what is the value gained. more like the value has been lost. Having-ness is the burden, the walls, the restrictions, the must and the must not. compulsions all gone. The needs the desires those have value,
Value there is no value, but the sense of total happiness which is not connected with having, being any one or doing anything
Yes. It is the counter-intuitive solution to the bank.
care to explained that please? Something created?
Yes it is a thing of beauty. It is never the thing that we think it is. This is the both the beauty and the fun of the trap. The counter-intuitive solution: IF “how can I be there?,” brings up nothing then turn it around to instead to “where is here?.” (any variation of this) It is just so clever and workable and makes my needle float thinking how fast that can get a stuck flow going.
Elizabeth says, “. . . can’t tell you what is the value gained. more like the value has been lost…Value there is no value, but the sense of total happiness which is not connected with having, being any one or doing anything”
Maria says, “Not only that, I would attack ‘it’ from many angles, including comparing it to things, tracing back early possible causes, associating it with earlier events, holding it in mind (not necessarily deliberately but kind of in a “keep an eye out for this” mode as I moved forward into my life) and things, talking about it endlessly, dreaming about it, reading, writing, singing, you name it, I would gnaw away at it. And whenever I “got it” I would a) realize what it was/is b) be intensely satisfied c) be very happy d) run around and tell others what I had come to know (often this would sound ridiculous, things like, “I’ve realized that I am just here and there is nowhere else, you know!” – which would miss completely the profundity of what I was relaying and often get a “well, DUH” response from others.)
Chris says, “The secrets hide in plain sight.”
Elizabeth, you’ve been really on a roll and put out lots of good and useful ideas on this thread. I knew this one would be right up your alley.
One is not aware of invalidation and evaluation until one duplicates the intention that exists at the source point.
Or, when the input communication associates itself with earlier experiences of invalidation and evaluation in one’s mind.
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Winning-cognitions and confront
The sessions are all about to re-gain the knowledge who we are. Winning in each session ending it with VGI’s cognitions have only one importance. All about the PC, to real find out what was his past and from that one can conclude ones potential power what the future will be what roles- games one will play.
Way back had a major COG: The spiritual being does everything in its power to destroy the MEST Universe to regain the freedom once had as a spiritual being out of the solid mass.
The second was, if one destroys everything around one’s self than one suffers less.
I could name few hundred more reasons which has great importance why one wants to destroy and do destroys the MEST end self-= body at the same time.
So what have we here? Lots and lots of loses all those losses makes the being believe he no longer has power, nothing works one is totally helpless, useless, lost control therefore one being controlled and overwhelmed.
In sessions the being is winning, he can win and has wins every time!!! What a glorious feeling that is!!! Knowing one can and one do, have will power and can see finally one’s own potential.
Winning in session re-aligns the being universe and gives back some of the confidence in self. That one can. Truly the sessions have the ability to rehabilitee the beings power.
In sessions for the very first time a being can find out what is winning and knowing that accomplishment is truly true. Existing and no one nothing can take that away ever again.
But what is the true win? To be able to confront to face and really see for self what is the universe is like one has created so innocently and for the first time one can confront one’s own creation and say yes I did that no matter what that maybe. Now that is power regained……..
To me it is all about recognizing who we are not!
🙂
It is the identification with considerations that keeps one trapped.
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Maybe to the Eastern culture life is pain that needs to be escaped. In the West, life is a game which needs to be played. Possibly in this difference (that you have originated) is an entry point to our discussions. When life is quite oppressive one simply wants to shed it. But if that person were relieved of a few layers of that oppression and if that person came uptone they might have a new outlook. Then maybe life would have something more interesting to offer. I am reading this over and trying very hard not to write a snide or condescending note as this is definitely not what I am trying to communicate. But something in your post made me think to write in this way.
Is it “as-is dissolve” versus “as-is create” that you are referring to?
Of course, there has to be a balance between the two. None can happen without the other.
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Vin…………. First identify – than confront than the as-is ing happens ,there is no trap in the procedure in auditing session..
The traps that I see are only mental gyrations that cause us to “face” the wrong way. It is like the characterization of the old man with reader glasses perched on his forehead and looking around desperately “for his glasses.”
Once we are turned toward the item, the confrontation won’t take long.
From Tech Dictionary:
IDENTIFICATION, 1. the inability to evaluate differences in time, location, form,
composition, or importance. ( SOS, p. 153) 2. identification is a monotone
assignment of importance. (SOS, p. 153) 3 . the lowest level of reasoning is
complete inability to differentiate, which is to say, identification. (SOS,
p.153) 4 . Duplicating in one space continually, is in itself identification.
(2ACC-25B, 5312CM17)
so here we go………… you have not duplicated my posting, none of it if you would have than you would not make such a remark…
2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
The blood pressure comes down… 🙂
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I think Elizabeth may have already answered this one: Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
“This boils down to one-ness of course, What you think I think, what you know I know, who’s was the thought the first thought in the first place, was it yours or mine? Good one, I am what you are!”
Maybe it goes this way with 2WC:
2WC drills the back and forth between the two poles of cause and effect that mirrors/reflects the actual (non-physical) communication going on. If done in a way that does not trigger fear, it results in a closing of the gap between cause and effect, and reducing any distortion to null. When the gap closes (i.e. no distortion) then there is no individuation. When there is no individuation or distortion then absolute duplication occurs. When absolute duplication occurs then all fear disappears and when fear is gone what remains is an absolute affinity and delight and a totally open communication between the two. I call this communion or unity. Communion with another is wonderful and often no words need be said and it is a most satisfactory state where nothing gets in the way of being with another, being another, being.
Maria, I can’t recall the tech verbatim, the mechanism to compute do not exist for me, I never could recite a poem a song more than one sentence. I don’t have those abilities. When I read something it dissolves there is no more, none existent. In this world that can be a handicap where knowledge is debated, recalled who… when… and what was written and replied. Those things do not exist for me. Seldom I recall somebody said something in connection to something.
It seems no matter what and when I speak is in new unit of time the answers are there to that pacific question, but nothing outside of that. The answer I give is not from any ones quote, knowledge, it is not remembered or retained from other times, conversations, it simply is.
Your questions can trigger something, and I can recall, or reading the comments can do the same. A sentence can catch my attention if something is out of harmony, not right. But I am sure I have reality of different kind in my space to note the out-ness there.
Please keep it in mind I am here on this planet very short period of time, which I have agreed to in order to belong while being here have fallen away very fast
|Elizabeth: I am absolutely delighted that you are participating!
I need stimulation, too quiet here where ever is here.. Being here is confronting, a learning experience. It is a game we play…Enything for you Maria all you need is to ask….
Instead of “one-ness” it is a lack of inconsistency and complete harmony for me.
It is like the sine wave.
🙂
Well, I walked into the local Mission 9am after finishing a midnight shift at work. I met a simply wonderful lady from New Zealand at the reception desk.
She asked what I wanted to do, I said well what have you got? She showed me the Grade Chart and I thought ‘Finally! Here after all these years is what I’ve been looking for.’ I looked at the levels right to the top (OT VIII at the time) and pointed to it. The excitement was almost unbearable – it, to me, was an awakening in itself.
I always knew there was a philosophy or study out there … a small group of people struggling to help this planet, and finally I had found it.
I had done a number of drugs and my universe was busy – I knew it wasn’t me and that I was something separate from the baggage – I did drugs to see what others were experiencing. Once I saw what it was, I quit.
I wanted an adventure – I didn’t want it easy because to me, anything worthwhile comes with overcoming obstacles and battling the storms, and to me, a state of Cause would entail some work and confront.
I shelled out $25, bought the Basic Scientology Dictionary (50 cents) and started the Comm Course that evening. That was Sept 30, 1971.
The course room was in the living room of an old house – needless to say it was packed.
We started TR0 (OT TR0 was not out yet). It was difficult – I was very aware of my body & my relation to it – pressures moved in & out, space contracted then expanded, my sight disappeared and then a clarity and sudden calmness occurred. I felt ‘solid’ – not in the sense of mass, but in ability to hold a position. My body disappeared – I was in a very different state. From where I started, I felt unshakable.
And then we started Bullbait …
To be continued
TR0 Bullbait was simply excellent – my ability to hold a position was shattered, but I loved it.
I knew there was something I could improve – the simplicity of Being. The concept I had at that point I realized later was Static – ‘being something’, ‘doing something’, or ‘having something’ had nothing to do with it. It wasn’t even ‘being myself’
Bullbait started easily and then the gradient increased rapidly. I loved being flunked for the slightest twitch and especially loved being flunked for a flinch – nothing to do with the body at all – it was my own area of confront that my coach perceived. Hammering each of those little areas blew much mass and I expanded outwards to include the coach in my ‘space’. Tremendous ARC, coincidence of beingness and the words, intentions & waves drifted thru my body & space.
It became effortless.
The balance of the TRs drilled me on the comm cycle and I finally found I could simply listen and be there – no reaction but simple understanding and the willingness to listen to anything with interest.
A sudden sadness occurred in which I observed others with attention inward. Look what they were missing I thought – a wide open beautiful universe with endless space.
A deep compassion for others emerged, I could move into others spaces and feel what they felt; not in sympathy, but understanding – a all encompassing empathy.
I felt at peace.
Dennis, very well written posts, this and the one above. I was moved. 🙂
Dennis: +1
Throughout the early 70s, various ‘types’ of TR0 came about:
Blinkless, no swallow, no nothing
2- hour timed – all TRs
All nighters – 8-10 hours straight – great fun, but what a win if you made it thru. Actually, the last few hours were a piece of cake … no body; no worries.
Then mid 70’s while in LA I along with 11 others got chosen to do the Pro-TRs Pilot. Intense and FREE – wow, a first! The checksheet was a mix of typed & hand written pages.
Frankly, I enjoyed my earlier jaunts thru the TRs.
A song here, “those were the days my friends I thought they never end..”….That is the only line I recall.. Thanks for the memories………I loved being in the Mission………
1. Why was the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 so life changing for many?
I was a part of the experimenatation done at Flag with blinkless TR0 in 1972-73. I also lived through the period circa 1976 to 1978 on Flag, heavily involved in TRs as the TR’s Course Word Clearer. I basically word cleared people toward an understanding which is now covered by KHTK Looking. By the way, the approach I used to word clear people toward this understanding of “as-isness through looking” was considered squirrelling by some people at Flag. It resulted in my removal from the post of TRs Word Clearer.
I believe that the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 was life changing to the degree “KHTK Looking” came into focus for many and it was practiced.
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1. Why was the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 so life changing for many?
For me, the TRs and many other services very early on in Scientology, got the new person to focus on PRESENT TIME. At that time, Scientology taught me that more THINKING was not the way out. It pointed out for me that through TRs and other theory and practical, the way out was through being in PRESENT TIME and PRODUCTIVE.
This is actually what turned my life around at the time I joined Scientology. I believe that the TRs, and locationals and other theory from The Problems of Work and what can be found in the CCHs and the theory underlying that, too, were all very therapeutic for me, at the time in my life that I experienced them.
Looking back, you always have to think about the problems you had back then, how your life was arranged, and how Scientology addressed those problems and the arrangement of your life for you. The problems you had at the time are very important to examine. Not necessarily just the wins. It’s the problems you had that make the wins, the wins.
For me, doing TRs, Upper Indoc TRs, Locationals and learning to audit my twin on CCHs, etc on on the old HQS course changed my life for the better.
To me, this was proof that Scientology WORKED.
I believe now that what worked was taking a book worm, kind of depressed, pot smoking janitor guy and getting him off of drugs and into PRESENT TIME. That’s what worked. And why.
Many different spiritual and therapeutic disciplines value PRESENT TIME as a goal to be reached and maintained mentally. I believe Hubbard was smart to begin a new recruit to Scientology with this emphasis.
If you’ll notice, PRESENT TIME becomes less and less emphasized as a Scientologist continues to “higher level” theory and practice in Scientology.
And “present time” is the whole point of Zen.
“Mindfulness” is experiencing present time and letting it happen.
The “POWER OF NOW” covers the importance of being in present time very thoroughly.
It is what makes Scientology “work” for a new recruit. He decides that Scientology “works” at this early point in his development as a Scientologist. Unfortunately, he also predicts that Scientology will work, too, and that ALL of Scientology works. He is not allowed to revisit and re-examine that decision ever again as a Scientologist in the Church. If he does, then he is in DOUBT.
And we all know how much of a “crime” and “lower condition” DOUBT is!
But, what is PRESENT TIME?
.
Christmas is PRESENT TIME!
YES 😀
Maybe PRESENT TIME is not allowing past to occur by as-ising each moment as it occurs.
Just a thought.
.
2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
A cognition is a reduction of dissonance. It is the sudden relief of an intolerable disharmony inside one’s universe.
The cognition has nothing to do with the “truth”. It is a thought or attitude or viewpoint which resolves the intolerable randomity of cognitive dissonance inside one’s head. It is a FEELING, and as such, it is very powerful and subtle to the person. It underlies thinking and realizing. It feels like a resoution, and so a Scientologist is trained to believe that the FEELING of a resolution is the “truth”.
Often, processes will create a dissonance that was not there before the session started. For example, OP PRO BY DUP, or “Book and Bottle” puts a person into a situation where the monotony itself is intolerable. The person is controlled by the auditor and can’t leave (and neither can the auditor). And so any relief from the intolerable randomity can be a “cognition”.
Another analogous example is torture. All the person has to do to stop the continued pain is tell the torturers what they want to hear, or express the viewpoint they want them to express. Then it will all stop. A Scientology auditing session, with all the CONTROL, and “we will not allow you to stop this, only the auditor can stop this”, has these elements in it. So does breaking a bronco (training a horse to allow himself to be ridden), or training a dog to not pee in the house.
The “restimulation” part of the session is the dissonance, and the “cognition” part of the session is the relief of that dissonance.
Auditing in Scientology is a progressive series of causing dissonance in a person and only allowing that dissonance to dissipate after he has had a cognition. And the cognition has to be the RIGHT COGNITION, not just any old cognition, before the session is allowed to end.
In this way, a Scientologist adopts more and more of the viewpoints and attitudes, beliefs and thinking that Scientology says are valid, true and “ethical”.
Cognitions are the way that Scientologists are turned more in to Scientologists.
Okay, that was fucking brilliant.
Alanzo, you continue to inspire me with your awesome.
Thank you. Thank you.
No…. No…..You’re too kind.
I am the Lurker’s Poster, after all.
Al – I have often looked in that direction. In fact I started looking in that direction long before I started any interaction with Scientology. What I noticed about my own thinking process was that if something didn’t “sit right” then I was like a dog at a bone, gnawing continually on it. And I would gnaw until I “got it.” Not only that, I would attack “it” from many angles, including comparing it to things, tracing back early possible causes, associating it with earlier events, holding it in mind (not necessarily deliberately but kind of in a “keep an eye out for this” mode as I moved forward into my life) and things, talking about it endlessly, dreaming about it, reading, writing, singing, you name it, I would gnaw away at it. And whenever I “got it” I would a) realize what it was/is b) be intensely satisfied c) be very happy d) run around and tell others what I had come to know (often this would sound ridiculous, things like, “I’ve realized that I am just here and there is nowhere else, you know!” – which would miss completely the profundity of what I was relaying and often get a “well, DUH” response from others.) I had an operation at one point when I was a child and I remember trying to figure out what had happened to me – where was I during the operation? Gone? Gone where? I can recall spending much time pondering the notion that my Gramma was dead, she would never return, I would never see her again, I cried and cried and cried and was ABSOLUTELY horrified by the idea that she just wasn’t because she had become dust in the ground. How could this be? That simply was not possible for me to understand. I rejected it utterly. I was 5 years old.
My point? I had cognitions and aha! before Scientology. Lots of them. LOTS.
What I noticed with auditing was that I was doing what I was always doing only I was doing it deliberately and intentionally and with focus. And as I did what I did I noticed what I did. And as I noticed what I did, really did, I would realize what I was really doing. And I would track down what was already dissonant. Already the bone. Deliberate gnawing. Very focused. And there was another there to keep me at what I was doing until I did it. And what I did and what I realized belonged to me. Those cognitions do not belong to Scientology. They never did and they never could. The only thing that ever belonged to Scientology was the deliberate means of attack or approach to exactly what I was already doing. They may be the “right” cognition from the particular direction of approach to them, but if they are then they don’t belong to anyone but us.
Alanzo……. And the cognition has to be the RIGHT COGNITION, not just any old cognition, before the session is allowed to end.
You have lost me with the above, care to explain what is the right or possibly a wrong cognition which occurs at the end of the session? ‘’any old cognition?”
Hi Elizabeth –
I don’t think we’ve met. I’m Alanzo. I’m a major SP on the Internet. Very dangerous. I’m the guy that LRH warned you about. :>
Anyway….
No auditor is going to stop a session if the pc blurts out, “Scientology is Total Freedom Delivered by Total Slaves!” or “L Ron Hubbard was a lying con man!” no matter what the indicators the pc is displaying.
In fact, as you know if you are a Scientologist with any training at all, many cognitions are labeled “End Phenomena” in the bulletins and the auditor is forbidden to end the process or stop the session until they are voiced by the pc with GIs or VGIs.
You do not leave ethics handlings until you have had the right cognitions. You are not allowed to attest to a rundown, or a course, until you have had a cognition that is acceptable to whoever’s hat it is to let you attest.
I’m curious as to why you would ask me this particular question, and how it was that I lost you.
Do you really think an auditor would end a process or session or ethics handling or let you attest to a rundown or course if you had just ANY kind of cognition?
You have to have the right cognition.
Right?
That may be so, I don’t know. What I do know is that what I was hoping to get out of this exercise is WHAT happened to people not explanations, not more analysis of Scientology, just WHAT HAPPENED. WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Not an abstraction, not an explanation, not a construct or model or evaluation of the right/wrong aspect of Scientology but WHAT HAPPENED. Right/wrong and why why why leads away from examining WHAT OCCURRED at the time of the cognition, when the cognition happened. What did YOU experience, all ulterior motives or assumed motives for “leading” questions aside.
Maria more on this. “What did YOU experience, all ulterior motives or assumed motives for “leading” questions aside.”
What happens, One really don’t look if not asked that pacific incident. You have so here it is.
That incredible good feeling when one cognate only lasts till the MASS- THE BANK moves back. Since items thought don’t contain that sensation, the sensation has created those thoughts items etc…. That feeling is so incredible have not been experienced for the long time [the creating stopped way back] The being un-knowingly recognizes that as self, how it was =origin= life =force=native state etc.. As auditing continues those feelings that sensation is increasing not only in volume but the it time span. The being knows that is HOME. The sessions continue that sensation intensifies and as the bank diminishes that sensation takes over period, in other words the being no longer walled in by solidity. . When the bank as-ised one regains that: is self the power so strong yet hold no mass that burns away the mass. That feeling can be described only experienced. You are asking us to describe movements of energy. Only a person can do that who no longer has interwoven energies and pictures, confusions, in other words, dis-harmony and who can see every creation from the beginning to its ending clearly.
Beyond the heavy mass lays [MEST], the individual energy pieces, an these energy pieces are the basic-basics an which the MEST was built on.
One can see and confront these basic energy creation which are named as the BASIC-BASIC. Can be confronted while running rudiments and They can be burned off =as-ised[ cognitions] they are the last because they are the heaviest, most solid energy their volume can’t be measured.
By the time the being gets to this massive energy, has regained enough power-light-life-force that the being can handle those.[ one can confront those same way as having a slice of cake, no problem by the being get there, nothing to it]
From then on THE PATH OF LIGHT remains clear because the instantaneous combustion burn off anything come within. The most difficult is to explain how the power which is invisible can demolish huge planetary systems. Keep it in mind solidity was created by the invisible…
I hope I given good explanation if not, ask please.
Alonzo…..”.I don’t think we’ve met. I’m Alanzo. I’m a major SP on the Internet. Very dangerous. I’m the guy that LRH warned you about. :>”
You scared the shit out of me, I cant stop laughing………….
you and are talking of different reality, the words dont have the same meanings, even the word clearer could not help here……… Hi I am the Great Elizabeth the most fantastic solo auditor on this planet who no longer has the bank……….Go read my blog that should put you into snooze mode…. Please no offence here but lots of evaluation which is good for the soul, pushes one to do some soul exemenation…………confrontation…..
+1 Al. Read through especially “Walk the Walk of the Solo Auditor.” Interesting stuff that and in my estimation a real ice-breaker for the next wave of Scientology. The one without KSW.
nothing but evaluation which will put me to the grave…. But I must die first, what is to die. Maria!!!!!!!!!!! Beloved one, Wins galore , I have no concept left on that Item. so I cant even die in peace……. terrible…..
No one talk to this guy… it has gone very badly bad for me…. haha
I still dont get it What is the diffence between right or wrong cognition how that can be believed it exist. If the person had one, ONLY ONE, than that person will know it was right and not wrong. THERE IS NO SUCH A THING AS WRONG COGNITION FOR pete sake.
PS if it was wrong than it was a made up thing some fabricated stuff a lie Than the EP of the session was not there, never happened there could be no VGI’s Jesus, for heaven sake what prosseses are in exsitance? The second greatest crime one can commit againts self is to lie to self…. brother,
I am glad I was out through those doors at Flag in 82. under those conditions no one can win. To bad for those who are in, but nothing has been lost. The Tech is out in the Universe and it is used. And infinite is a long time every one will attain their postulates.
Just so!
remember I was out 76 but they wanted to real me back to Handle my case……….
Alanzo, i miss spelled your name more then once please do forgive!!!
Good post Al. I agree we were taught that the cognition is the truth when the truth might be quite a ways off yet. Cognition is the tipping point of losing that layer of dissonance as you call it. I think this is in the direction of truth.
Good post Al. I agree we were taught that the cognition is the truth when the truth might be quite a ways off yet. Cognition is the tipping point of losing that layer of dissonance as you call it. I think this is in the direction of truth.
You make an interesting point here Chris, but I have to bring up something else about it.
My point emphasized the feeling that the Scientologist got when he had a cognition, and how a Scientologist starts to associate that feeling with the truth. You will see a Scientologist say “that indicates!” when they get that feeling that something is the “truth”.
My point is that consulting a feeling is a very bad way to discern the truth.
Here’s an example:
Let’s say that, in truth, your wife is cheating on you with your best friend.
But you’ve been telling yourself, and very much wanting to believe, something else. When you see them sitting together in the car outside your house late at night, you get a bad feeling about it. It’s dissonant. It’s actually a very very bad feeling that you need to resolve. So you ask her what she was doing out there. And she says to you “We were planning what Christmas gift to get you, if you have to know!”
And you’re relieved. It feels better now. It “indicates.” It harmonizes and resonates with other data like “I can trust my wife.” “I have a great marriage.” “My future is secure.” etc.
In fact, in this case the truth creates VERY BAD feelings. It is very dissonant, uncomfortable and disruptive to your whole life. And the truth here causes large upheavals to stable data and your mental and emotional health.
So anyone who really wishes to seek to live with the truth should not be looking to feelings to tell them what the truth is. The truth is too often uncomfortable. So building a tolerance to that discomfort is necessary if one truly seeks to live with the truth.
That was my point.
Yours was a good one, too. That cognitions are on the way to the truth. But my point was about how a Scientologist begins to associates the FEELING of a “key out” or a “floating needle” with the idea that they are dealing in the truth. It’s not like that. And if a Scientologist gets into that habit, then they are going to have a harder and harder time seeking to live with the truth.
Yes you are very right. What other indicators can we use?
Someone defined logic and critical thinking as “the skills necessary to preserve truth throughout the thinking process”.
It may not be the way to discover truth, but it is certainly a better way to test a cognition’s validity than the feeling one gets from it.
At least that’s what I think.
and so my wife beats me every day just in case her feelings that I am being faithful are wrong . . .
I had a girlfriend like that once.
Alfonso……”Cognitions are the way that Scientologists are turned more in to Scientologists”
Hell no, scientology that concepts vanish so are all the rules, regulations, agreements, thought, the reasons, the must, the needs all which one holds within will go. Scientology is and was a game to some still is.
But no, scientology was a tool to use to go further to attain Enlightenment with that tool which was promised we bought and paid for. Scientology is a concept, nothing more. If I would have remained a scientologist than I would not attained Enlightenment. Since those concepts are energy and they are walls barriers which hold the person in prisons. Thought are walls if one continues to have those one stays within those concept and held there.
Hell….. Cognitions DO free the person from concepts agreements and the manmade laws. Good god you fired me up, I love it, thanks………….:)
LOL!
Awesome.
As an SP, all I can do is restimulate!
Sp’s dont Bother me at all since I dont believe in such a concept. I belive there is none-confront on the side who calls the other person SP.
You thinking which was not alined on that item did that it is not a stimulation, but something else which cant be explained,,,, since dont have words for those…. Harmony or out of harmony where things not suitable stick out badly…..
Good Elizabeth. Harmony, dis-harmony, accord, dis-cord, smooth-rough, consistent-inconsistent, dirty-clean, flattening buttons; all these words aligns perfectly with all the words we use to locate and describe “items.”
Good for you, I know I am not talking to the wall… far from it, how is this ? talking through the wall? I like that!!! That is progress, means wall do vanish when one is duplicated…
You are right to some degree, Alanzo. Auditing may introduce dissonance and then handle the same, making one believe that one is improving, when, in fact, there is no improvement on a long term basis. But I think that in early stages of auditing the probability of hitting actual areas of dissonance is quite high. That is when earth shattering wins occur to the pc. As time passes, auditing turns into more of a hit and miss proposition because more precision is required in locating the remaining areas of dissonance.
In Scientology auditing, there is evaluation of the case by the C/S. This means that the C/S, following a theory, assumes dissonance to exist in certain areas of the case. The pc is then insisted upon to find that dissonance even when it is not apparent to him.
It seems that the effort in Dianetic and Scientology is to somehow create a big shift in the case by drilling into it. This approach tends to bypass the “natural unwinding” of the case as practiced in KHTK.
There is nothing wrong with directional processes of Scientology, which ask the pc to look into a certain area. What is wrong is the insistence that something must be there because the theory says so, even when the pc is unable to find anything. Maybe something is there, but at that moment it is not accessible, and the pc should not be insisted upon to dig into that area. Usually, when something is there it comes up right away. If nothing is found after a few initial attempts then one should simply move to the next process.
The expectations of the case supervisor and auditor, as regards the outcome from a certain process, make the pc to expect too, This “filter of expectations” then opens the door to dub-in and also to a lack of detection of the dub-in. Much overrun and repair then follows. This is not simply the fault of the auditor. This is an error prone approach which is part of Scientology tech. It has been happening since day one, and it can never be eliminated no matter how much you train the auditors.
KHTK is now looking into directional processes, but with the proviso, that the running of the process does not mean that something must be found in that direction. Please see
KHTK 16: Some Directed Processes
I think that many Scientology processes may be adapted to KHTK approach. The KHTK approach frees one from the liability of overrun and repair that exists in Scientology approach.
.
3. Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
Two-way Comm is the essence of empathy and understanding, what each human being craves. It provides a non-judgmental, “granting beingness” type of environment where a person is allowed to focus on an issue or confusion long enough and deeply enough to bring about its resolution, and to have another caring human being with them when it happens.
This is very beneficial to human beings. And done right, it is a very beneficial part of Scientology training and technology.
Often “handlings” in Scientology try to use 2wc. We’ve all experienced the saccharin sweet feeling of being manipulated during these “handlings”.
2wc works when the problem is your own – not manufactured by anyone else – and the resolution you come up with works for your own self-interests. When you are being “guided” away from your own self-interests during 2wc in Scientology, that’s when you feel it is not beneficial.
Again, 2wc is a very beneficial skill to learn in Scientology, and it can be very beneficial to receive it under the right conditions above.
4. What exactly happens when there is a floating needle?
I have no idea. I have never been able to explain emeter behavior outside of Scientology.
I do not trust the explanation that the “bank” releases during a floating needle, and yet the same phenomenon occurs during an “ARC Break”, too. As with so many of Hubbard’s conflicting and contradicting explanations for the emeter and with so many areas of the tech, it doesn’t make sense.
A person close to a family member of Hubbard’s once told me that this family member said that the emeter’s main function was to produce Stockholme Syndrome. As an interrogation device, it is very effective if the person being interrogated believes that it can read the person’s thoughts. After a person realizes it can’t, the emeter is no longer effective on them.
Having said that, I still can’t explain what I have seen in session from the emeter and what I have produced with it, including what I have produced with the dating drill.
I believe that the Emeter remains to be explained by anyone, including Hubbard.
5. What exactly happens when a person has VGIs? i.e. what have they “acquired” that produces such a massive sense of satisfaction?
See my answer for what a cognition is.
It is a resolution of dissonance.
If you look at the universal human nature of craving “tension and release”, which is something that Aristotle outlined in art in his “Poetics”, has everything to do with sex, drug addiction, and which is what captivates us in all human drama, you will see Scientology is filled with manufacturing tension and release.
Maybe human beings are little tension and release machines. We love it.
It’s all we want to do.
And IMHO this is the reason why S&M causes such big “WOO-HOO!” from people that practice it. For some reason bondage and release creates more powerful sexual experiences.
It only makes sense when you look a human evolution and our warring past.
When ancient barbarians captured another group of humans, how did they decide who they were going to keep and who they were going to kill off?
The ugly truth is that they first took the women and forced them to be their mates. They WERE barbarians after all. It’s what they did.
AND OVER TIME …
If a routinely raped widow one day has a life changing orgasm, or finds she is pregnant from a guy wearing the army uniform that conquered her tribe, killed her husband and brings her flowers … WHAT IS GOING ON WHEN SHE ENDS UP FALLING IN LOVE HIM?
Simple. It’s evolution. Why does the movie “Beauty and the Beast” have such appeal? If you look at it, the plot is built around Stockholm Syndrome.
“A woman is TRAPPED in a castle with a monster … ”
If the females of the conquered tribe can CHANGE THEIR SEXUAL PREFERENCE for their captors, they will not die. And if soldiers of a conquering force can convince their conquerer that they HAVE MADE AN EMOTIONAL SHIFT OF COMPLETE LOYALTY for the new leader, they will not die.
And captured soldiers would go through a “cutting process” or “training program” to see if they were worthy of the conquering army. Those that could impress them lived. AND THOSE THAT COULD NOT SHIFT THEIR LOYALTY WITHIN THEIR OWN REALITY DIED.
Stockhold Syndrome is just people changing to survive new social circumstances.
Cult “Cognitions” from tightly controlled social systems like Scientology are the result of this evolutionary reality. The group is a “club” whose admission may ONLY be won by the winning … of … your … heart.
And for the record, I would be one of the losers that would be offed for non-conformity.
R2-CROSSBOW for me. . .
Because us non-conformists are all the same to them …
This reminded me of a realization I had on course one day.
I examined a synonym study of the word “education”. There was teaching, learning, education and TRAINING. I looked up the derivation of TRAINING.
It comes from the TRAIN or ROPE that is dragged behind a horse. It hit me: TRAINING originally meant “dragged behind a horse”. I realized that this is why Scientology courses are called TRAINING and not EDUCATION.
haha good one. But maybe we needed to come up a notch with training before we could be educated… jus sayin
Well, so now we have “Horse Tech.” Al, you are brilliant! Who wants to get drug behind a horse for $ 5,000.00?
The EP is “Common Horse Sense!”
And when we pass, we can be dubbed “HUMAN EQUES!”
Interesting. But your genes were not culled.
You busted me Chris.
I recently joined a yoga cult. I did it on purpose to see how their techniques worked on me. I made some Facebook posts about it.
Anyway, it’s a hot yoga group that does yoga in 105-109 degree rooms. The cult leader has built an amazing business out of it. As far as the cult range goes it rates a 4.0 on a scale of 1-10 IMHO. 1 being a very mild cult experience and 10 being something akin to a suicidal group like Heaven’s Gate.
One of their rites of passage is 60 workouts in 60 days. I GOT SO LOVE BOMBED BY STAFF WHEN I CHOSE TOD IT. And quickly, staff went nuts over it.
I SO DIDN’T EXPECT THIS.
Now, they are great people. I’m having a blast. I love this setting. The workout is challenging. They are FUN people.
And … it’s … a … cult.
To get ahead on the 60 day challenge, I did a triple (three workouts in one day). A triple is a rarity because it is so physically challenging because of the heat. I literally had hot blond and red-headed twenty somethings smiling and jumping in front of me for doing it and love bombing me.
I was stunned.
To pull it off, I took cold showers IMMEDIATELY after leaving the room when the class was done. I did one workout at 5:30 AM and the other two in the evening. I also positioned my mat as close to the window as possible (It was 50 degrees outside.) I also paced myself and wet my sweat towel ahead of time so it was a cooling force.
Yup. I cheated.
And I’ll be with this cult for awhile. It is not INVASIVE into my life. And I’m losing weight.
And some Cults are fun. Cult dynamics often bring out heroic efforts. It’s very liberating to see and label EVERY technique they use to control the students.
FUN!
Alanzo………..”Maybe human beings are little tension and release machines. We love it.
It’s all we want to do.”
I do hope you dont believe that.
If there is no more than stimulation, than why not stay with sex, good long humping in the morning and in the evening and have 3 mails and some snacks in-between? Or hit yourself on the head with a heavy hammer. It is stimulation after all.
Think man, you know the answer, give it, let’s have your wins in the open so we can cheer too.
Nice.
Why would an F/N not be the meter reading that resolution of dissonance?
F/N can occur just as readily with harmonius conditioning, as with the release of intense dissonance, whether real or artificially created.
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3. Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
Two way communication is beneficial because the person with travails has come to consider that he is MEST. Two way comm is an undercut to the person with a problem who cannot simply handle the problem in his own universe. The component parts of communication (Axiom 28) include duplication. It is in this duplication that a person, who is being himself can as-is by looking directly at the problem. Though in two way communication a person considers that he “needs someone to talk to” this is in fact a misunderstanding on the part of the person with the problem. He considers that he needs the second terminal to discharge against and in the 2-way comm he may consider that this happened, but as he moves along and becomes more adept at this process, he realizes that it was in fact during his itsa that he was forced to look in his own mind at the problem and confront it to the point where he could say it out loud to the friend or auditor. Once a person nails this, they no longer need the second terminal in order to audit, but can take stock of their own life and can achieve an auditing release without it.
Two way communication with another can always be desirable, beneficial and pleasurable; however, this is my answer to the OP.
This exercise will work best if the exact questions are answered – if the question is WHAT HAPPENED – then don’t give an explanation, describe what happened as best you can. I realize that the language can be a barrier to description, but really look at WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED to YOU and describe that experience. The right/wrong issues of Scientology and whether or not it is the “right” way or why it is the “right” way or “wrong” or twisted way or whatever opinion or explanation can be derived has nothing to do with WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED to YOU, what YOU experienced.
Maria, if I can be help ask a simple question that works for me.
I might add that I came to these questions because one day I realized that explanations of why something happened takes us straight into the path of obscuring WHAT HAPPENED. Its like “enlightenment” as a word is so abstract that one thinks one is talking to another about the same thing and maybe that is so, but unless what really is going on is brought to the surface there is no way of telling and all we are doing is trading words that ill describe what really occurred.
Maria. “ Its like “enlightenment” as a word is so abstract that”
Here is my answer for ENLIGHTEMENT. I have not made this up, it is not my reality-cognition but I have received this from a Free Being who is visiting here.
He or IT, said when he has seen the cognitions how and what is happening: the light energy burns up the MEST= the heavy energy the bank.
He calls my walk: The PATH OF LIGHT, since the light the purity burns a Path across the universe. Where I walk the space that track which I have left behind my experiences now I have re-created=retraced there is a void now which was burned off by the life-force. But it still remains The Path of Light. That is the intangible, infinite.
Elizabeth: Wow. If you can, please thank that free being for responding to the question of what happens when there is a cognition and what is happening with enlightenment.
I know the cognitions what happens since I “see” energy particles move= flow-interact , but he named the PATH. and you can thank him your self since there is no distance.
I think this might have been the reason for rule for not talking about one’s case out of session.
I dont agree to that. it is fantasic to see how other universes are. Also this is like bull-baiting. I was in isolation within my universe from 76 till last year. Since I have come out of the closet the universe opened up i see more and can confront. I see nothing but lesons all around me and to learn from.
Yes, I don’t agree to it as well when someone is toughened up as we are. And then again, I see the downside of it. Maybe you can remember your reality as a teenager or before taking that first comm course. When a being is tentatively in valence, their in-valence reality is fragile. Their reach can be fragile. That’s all I’m gonna say.
At the other end of this spectrum is the robot who says nothing out of session. How boring is that? This one asshole who was a guest in my home literally broke up a party I was having to ask some OTs to go outside and discuss OT things out of my earshot. I started to get offended, then thought better of it — barbarians.
Everyone make your choices freely and with a good heart.
From another angle – let’s say somebody tells you that they are now a Christian and that they have been born again. That tells you how they have identified this event. It does not tell you WHAT HAPPENED. Was there a flash of light? Did they suddenly feel calm? Did a voice speak to them and if it did, what did it say? Was it male, female, etc. WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED that they are now say they have been born again? Take away the label so you can see what actually happened. The answers can be very surprising and very revealing.
I see what you are saying.
For me, WHAT HAPPENED to me was that I quit drinking and smoking pot, and shaped up and started being more productive. Spiritually, I began trying to stay in PRESENT TIME and not listening so much to myself – except in session – or dwell too much about my low-toned emotions or negative thoughts. I learned to do locationals on myself to manage my feelings, rather than drink or get stoned to manage them. I learned that PRODUCTION IS THE BASIS OF MORALE and so I set out to make myself happy through working hard and achieving success.
I was also talking to people who were interested in philosophy and changing the world instead of people who were drunk and drugged out all the time. This was good for me. And I truly thought that all the Scientologists I was surrounding myself with were just like me.
That’s what happened. I found a way to make myself happy.
Good one. 🙂
Thank you Alanzo!
Can you describe what happens / what is going on when you feel that you are in present time? i.e. what changes occur that are your signposts, your recognition of it?
On managing feelings – can you describe what you do to alter them?
thank you for let me into your universe. good of you.
Nice wins, Al !
That is a very good description. Those are significant wins.
What “actually” happened could very well be a “vision” as you suggest.
Such a “vision” could be a long lost consideration that unearthed itself and wrapped itself as a Christmas present.
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Becoming a Scientologist was a new way for me to make myself happy.
After a while though, it turned out to be unsustainable for me. I was not happy being a Scientologist once I got high enough to be able to piece together what was really going on, and had visited enough orgs to find the common denominators, and had enough repeating experiences to realize that Scientology was not the group I thought I was joining. That made me very unhappy.
So I quit.
And now it makes me happy to see so many people who have been involved in Scientology being able to discuss it, and see the common denominators for themselves, and being exposed to information about it that had been hidden from them, and breaking free from its cultic controls.
It makes me happy to see more and more people making informed decisions about their own involvement in Scientology.
And by getting high enough, I meant getting high enough on the bridge to be able to piece together what was really going on….
Beat you to it, Valkov! :>
Maria. … The auditor’s code.
It has great importance and it should be in place at all times. That code will allow the PC to continue and not being left stuck in the incident. That code beside the Rudiments allowed me to continue and erase the bank. Here it is how it has worked for me. In the solo course at ST Hill we really had to know all the words and do the demo, than drill and drill with a partner first than under very watchful eyes of Bert Griswold.
When I started the solo sessions that was in, the ack, too the complete communication cycle between the auditor and the PC. Worked very well. Being a PC was not easy I had in the first 10 years of soloing huge obstacles to confront and overcome. Some of the auditing questions put me into coma like state which could last for hour or two, those time I could come out for s second or two just enough to repeat the auditing question “ I repeat the question etc….” than I would sink back into that incredible un-conscious state…. This could go on and on. But the question was there to ask, the code was kept the TR’s in, the way I have learned in the solo course: what is the difference between the auditor and the PC.
I would like to share the most difficult sessions I ever had out of the tens of thousands. The topic was HELL but I won’t repeat the auditing question which triggered off such a huge mass which lasted for three days. That concept whatever it was held me twisted, bunched up in agony nearly -conscious.
The session started early afternoon, yet I could not get out of it by late evening, I was exhausted hungry, felt panic since I could not see pictures but that twisted agony.
It never happened before to have 8 hour session in one sitting, but I had to end it. Fallowing morning I went to work I was in the zombie state, all day and driving was very difficult since I was not conscious. At home back to session, same all over, occasionally I could surface enough to repeat the auditing question. Again I could not get out. This time I stopped to eat than back to unconscious state. The session was almost 11 hours long. In the morning back to work same state continued, but by being having some thoughts surfacing I realized I was in trouble and felt panic what if I can’t pull myself out? big time panic….set in…
At home eat, than back into session, with the same auditing question. The most difficult part of the session just started, because realization has come I must look beyond the unconsciousness, I must find my way out in order to see what I was in. I must find a tread, a picture which will give me something to continue with something to fallow. It worked, very slowly; I pounded the walls of Hell at first with just a smidgen of returning energy, since my thoughts were less than whiff of smoke in the autumn evening
But the auditing questions continued, the ack.’s were there to. The pictures started to roll and I have come out of the depth of Hell. The cognitions rolled in for days and I could not go into session for a month. Auditor’s code well learned and being kept can take any PC out of any incident. That session was 6 hours. Wins galore, Hell as=ised, the universe rejoiced…………
At the EP at the cognition space opens up there is a a energy: the self= the self-power the light, which burns off the other energy which is mass, It is like combustion?
Explosion which burns off all existing energy. There are different levels to EP to this energy I have seen different levels of that power how it burned off energy. as I have progressed…
At first when I become aware of that, the energy was strong golden in color, than in later years become golden-silver light, than bright silvery glitter, and now has nothing no color no substenence.
IT is my space that is “I” and what ever enters into it it burns off as-ised that is the reason for instant cognitions occurece when something enters into my space. I hope I am helping with your question.
Elizabeth: you are most certainly helping to answer my question! What courage to continue through that session you described! And I too have experienced this energy / combustion in the cognition space – I currently see it often as a violet / white and sometimes pinkish brightness suffusing everything. And I definitely experience a dissolution of what I see as sort of dulled down images / manifestations. Perhaps I am entering into the space of an individual such as you at times because this does happen when I am in a “contemplative” state – I walk a lot and as I walk I “unfurl” into an expanded state of being where I know I am not alone but among friends in a universe of love, the trees are alive so alive, the world around me is all lit up. As you can probably guess, I love my long walks! As I have done this, I have found that I never feel alone or isolated any more. There is presence, always and it is me and not me simultaneously. The first time this ever happened was when I went Clear and I was in love and I was love just shining and shining and the world shone through me. It brought me to my knees in gratitude and joy, as I moved through and with and in this garden of life in childlike wonder.
Maria, yes the long walks when one hears the sound of the footsteps but that belongs to the body not self, we float.
Yes, the threes have flows most beautiful: every one of them , even the saplings are like torches, the energy shoots through them from the Earth, this energy is like powdered prisms they glow –shimmer and disperse in the air into the atmosphere, they are the rejuvenating factor in this Planet…. also there is golden light about…
I used to hug a three I would just stand there my arms around that beautiful being, face resting on the bark.
As time passed by, years soloing…. and I could not experience that energy anymore and I had loss on that….than the cognition has come…….. I too have the same energy ……… Go and hug ………
What happened to me when I joined my Hot Yoga Cult
The BITE Model in the Classroom:
I am not allowed to bring ANYTHING into the room beside a yoga mat, towel and water. No yoga props are allowed. You cannot being cell phones, wallets ANYTHING other than those items.
The Class room is tightly controlled. No talking is allowed ever in the class room either before or after class. If you talk at all you will be silenced in front of everyone. You cannot look at other students. You are told where to put your eyes. Everything in the speech is designed to get you through the pressure cooker ahead.
And it’s a pressure cooker. I didn’t make it through the first class and left even though the instructor told me not to. I purposely disobeyed to see the reaction.
They are kind, but they will NOT tolerate disobedience long.
Every instructor uses the same speech for the class verbatim. There is some variation, but technically it is supposed to be verbatim.
Student’s motions are severely restricted. If you cannot do a pose you cannot substitute a pose of your own that is not approved.
At first you feel beaten down by the heat. I once brought a scale and weighed before and after class and lost 4.5 pounds of sweat (1/2 a gallon). The sweat drenches your towel. The first few times your eyes burn because of the salt in your sweat. As you do more, your eyes sting less because salt doesn’t built up.
WINS: Your body gets used to the heat. You get stronger. Your body starts to become softer and more supple. Your focus improves. As months go by, you no longer need the cues of the teacher. Impossible poses become possible. The poses create great results because they “bind” and then “release” as Alanzo talks about, it’s what we crave in some ways. The entire experience is a constant pressure cooker of binding and releasing.
I’ve tested the limits of the structures and been labeled “difficult.” One time I was told I was doing a move incorrectly. I kept doing it my way. The teacher kept correcting me. On the next class a five minute lecture was given about WHY I shouldn’t do it that way TO THE WHOLE CLASS. Physiologically, she was NOT accurate. I realized I reached the end of the permission curve and would be ousted if I didn’t comply so I did. I was rewarded with “GREAT CLASS” afterward and cheers and love.
I smiled.
Oops. Gotta go to class and watch my reaction to cult dynamics!
Nice. How much did the 60/60 deal cost?
Our studio charges $ 40 buck a month unlimited for the first month as a special. Then it goes up to 45 the second month and then 100.
So you can get 60 days in for under a hunner dollars in DFW.
Wow! Not bad.
Wait KG, this is unethical of you to take unfair advantage of this cult. If you have any goodness in you at all, you will go back in there and give them $40 for the first session, $750 for the second session, then $4,500 per month (not to exceed 4 sessions/mo) until your credit cards run out then mortgage your house. Get a second job to pay for all this and then go do your ethics conditions for being off course to do this. If you are truly a good person, you will do this. (joke) Surely they have additional literature and devices for you to purchase as well at exhorbitantly unbelievably unapproachably high prices? Or maybe you could give them some pointers about Ideal Orgs.
🙂 LOL!
Very interesting adventure. – being in a cult with your eyes wide open and testing the limits to see how they apply social coercion.
🙂 I call it “Cult Surfing.”
KG – Can you describe what happens when you practice tonglen?
Tonglen IMHO should be the primary mind practice of my life, so thanks for asking and reminding me. There are, of course, several versions of it.
My first experience is that when I started embracing, feeling and breathing in the suffering of the entire universes through Tonglen, that it was deeply saddening.
But as I got better at it, I felt a lot stronger and better. The most useful spillover benefit for me is whenever I meet suffering head on I can breathe it in courageously and then breathe out absolute compassion courageously.
When it is practiced regularly, it “springs” into use in day to day life. One can learn to use it as a centering tool when people are verbally assaulting or manipulating.
At the yoga center is a guy who engages me in discussions. He and I do not agree on the nature of the soul and I was just stating my viewpoint and he completely overrode the conversation. Rather than fight back, I acknowledged what has happening in the conversation to him and started to breathe in the pain of his life and breathe out endless compassion to him as he bullied me. He continued asking me black and white questions and pushing his viewpoint in a condescending manner. I just sat there breathing in his life’s suffering and breathing out compassion to it.
The next day he was humbled toward me. Kind in fact. I saw that he saw what happened and it was kind to bring things back to a more common friendship.
Sadly, I use Tonglen more as a band aid which is a mistake. I don’t maintain a regular practice of it but I have done a fair amount of it in the past when my sitting practice was strong. But even a mild practice like my own has been helpful.
Right now, my Yoga cult is taking the stage for my spiritual practice. And I actually used Tonglen in yoga yesterday. As I did yoga I practiced Tonglen for the group I was with.
When I run across a someone suffering physically in real time, Tonglen helps me fiercely embrace their immediate suffering and release compassion toward them.
When I hear of a great earthquake or other disaster, Tonglen helps me realistically embrace the gravity of the suffering without fear and be okay with the effects it creates on my body.
Traditionally, one starts a Tonglen practice with one’s own suffering. As one becomes comfortable with that, one can target people he/she knows. From that, groups. And eventually, you can imagine the whole of existence.
Some traditions tell you to imagine breathing in “smoke” to represent the suffering and to breathe out compassion as light.
There are infinite ways to practice Tonglen. If a self-controlled reincarnation is real (I personally find it highly suspect but would love to be proved wrong), lifetimes spent on this practice alone would not be wasted.
Is it “real?” It doesn’t matter. It helps the user, and that alone makes it worthy. The user can use the courage brought on by Tonglen to reach a real hand to real people. It frees up the user of the technique to let go of his or her ego and help our suffering world.
The Lojong proverbs are the heart of it.
Pema Chodron is a master of it. She suffers from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and has had a lot of personal suffering to embrace because of it. If you look her up on You Tube you will find some images of her where she looks like warmed over death. That’s because, she suffers from a debilitating disease.
Thanks kg.
I am considering your comment: Is it “real?” It doesn’t matter. It helps the user, and that alone makes it worthy.
I think you may be right about that. And oddly, the sentence that has caught my attention is” “It doesn’t matter.”
Hmmm…. it doesn’t matter. So what happens when it does matter? What happens when I am mattering? I matter. Hmmm… there’s a whole way of “looking” by using mattering as a verb.
This is from a friend of mine, what is the ultimate punishment:
Total overwhelming / obliteration of the individual that reduces self to nothing i.e. strips all dignity, all creativity, all sense of power or choice, all sense of worth. It continues with no end in sight and way out, yet there is enough sentience to be aware that one must escape and a sense of total futility – escape is not possible.
I may be chided here again for being “Eastern” in my thinking; but such punishment is possible only when one is very much attached to the idea of self.
What I am saying does minimize the idea of honor, self-respect, individuality, etc., and implies that one should give up under such oppressive circumstance. However, on the other hand there is the datum that one has to agree to be effect before one can be effect.
If one is non-judgmental, and one is not resisting, then one can be fully there under any and all circumstances, and wiser as a result.
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I was waiting for this. Vinaire you have never been chided nor even been referred to on this blog in reference to geography or race. You have made comparisons several times to your own Eastern philosophical conditioning comparing it to Western philosophy. No one else.
I mentioned your Eastern heritage for the first time this week in reference to your own references to it. Your own generality of it got me thinking about. I wondered if any result of it would contribute to the inconsistencies between the two and what are they? How do the different upbringings contribute to the different ways we view “our selves.”
I have chided Vinaire constantly for his Eastern upbringing.
He knows that I am terrified of the idea that India may rise up in power and influence again and that I am doing whatever I can to 3rd Party them back into the Stone Age to avoid my nightmare of the Vedic Hordes coming over the hilltop on horseback at me.
The Chariots!
Run for your lives!!!
Sorry. That was my mad, howling yesterday.
What’s your mad, howling PRESENT TIME?
You are funny, Alanzo, but don’t you see that the “Vedic Hordes” are already here, and you are a part of it.
Hope this doesn’t give you the nightmares because I am riding beside you.
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I look at “Eastern” and “Western” as two fundamentally different frame of references that are not fixed by geography. Both of these two frames have existed in India from ancient times. And both of them are found in Europe and America too. Geography may come into picture depending on which frame of reference dominates where.
At the upper level of thought, “value” does not seem to play as strong a role as consistency, and that is where I am. I no longer think in terms of which system is better. I am simply looking in the direction of greater consistency.
Konwledge is nothing to do with race or geography. To me, knowledge has to do with consistency.
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Good. Thank you. Me too.
i have two good students of KHTK: Rafael and Chris Thompson.
i am really proud of them. They have made progress in leaps and bounds.
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But then,,, probably, Rafael and Chris were already on that path… KHTK is so natural…
KHTK is that, which underlies Scientology, and any worthy graduate of Scientology would recognize that.
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Vinnie, what you say may be true, and it may be the purest truth possible, but there is also something to be said for simply acknowledging what another individual says and experiences without dismissing it.
You have DECIDED / ASSUMED that selflessness necessarily results in a particular state. To my way of thinking that is every bit as evaluative as the processes you denounce as evaluative. You are factually steering people in a particular direction, to a particular standard, a standard that you believe is the correct and only standard.
I am simply asking people to describe what occurred – how they see / experience things. How they currently “see” their world is how they currently “see” their world.
For the record, my friend has never done any auditing or spiritually oriented practices.
I will add that he suggested that considering the opposite of the ultimate punishment as the ultimate direction of “reward” is a pretty good statement of what he considers valuable in life: expansion, clarity, freedom (not trapped,) joy, love, connectedness, integrity. These are the things he works towards on his own path.
Great post.
Maria, I have no idea what you consider I am dismissing. I am simply looking at what is there. If something is not there then I recognize it as not being there.
My intention is not to assume anything. In fact my intention is to ferret out assumptions, “Everybody knows” type assumptions tend to escape detection. Could “self” be such an assumption?
I am not beating any drum for “selflessness.” If I am evaluating “for something,” then you may be evaluating “against it.” Nobody can escape from doing evaluations, you included.
Any view of “what occurred” is an evaluation too. If a person gets a “vision,” is that the final word of what is there? No. it is an interpretation of what might be there. Interpretation is another form of evaluation.
My criterion is consistency. I am using mathematics to aid me in discovering inconsistencies. “Looking” is something very natural. It is not “auditing” or some “spiritually oriented practice.” Same can be said for mathematical consistency.
All values are additives to “unknowable”. Assiging values “good and desirable” or “evil and undesirable” are simply opinions and may be considered “additives of second degree.” I apologize for using the word “unknowable” because it is not appreciated on this blog.
I am not being condescending. I am simply trying to be consistent.
Neti, neti.
Maybe I am being consistently condescening (joke).
Honestly, once again, I am not trying to be condescending.
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“Maybe I am being consistently condescending…”
That is my view of you exactly.
Maria, you are accusing me of steering people, Please take an honest look, and see if you could be doing the same without realizing it.
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Of course she is, but you more insistently and drum-beatingly so.
“I am not beating any drum for “selflessness.””
Oh yes you are.
“Maria, I have no idea what you consider I am dismissing. I am simply looking at what is there. If something is not there then I recognize it as not being there.”
And I too am simply looking at what is there. That is what I am doing by looking at these questions. It seems to me that you are making an assumption that because YOU do not see it, then it isn’t there. The simplicity is that YOU do not see it. It does not follow that because YOU do not see it then it cannot possibly be there. What’s there for someone is there for someone and it doesn’t go away for them just because YOU cannot see it. It also does not mean that they are STUCK in an illusion or that they think they are that illusion. It means that they are looking at something that YOU do not see. And it may be true that it is an illusion, but it may be true that illusion is real.
Vin My Friend… I finally got your number. Pull up your socks tighten your string an your drawer’s, buckle up because this is going to be a bumpy ride. Unfortunately I am with you on this since I am writing, conducting this tour.
THE word is ””” CONSISTENCY”””, ever since I been blogging here at Geirs home I read the same, almost same comments from you over and over…. If You go back re-read your comments hundreds of them you will see what I mean.
This is what I experience when I read those over and over. I actually feel, I just been hit by or walked into on invisible wall. I get a jolt from that invisibly hidden wall which so strongly surrounds you. You won’t let anyone in or you won’t come out and you defend that wall=your words the phrases with tooth and claw. With that I mean you throw them back again unchanged.: solid to the core .
That wall, that energy is real, not my imagination….. The wall is there…
The words some of your comments, are slogans, you are hiding behind those slogans and throw them out, or you quote from the past which pose to be clever or brilliant or enlightened saying.
I don’t think so. We are not always clever, brilliant, and good, if that would be the case this world would be a very boring place. The games here on this planet are so varied as individual being here.
‘Have you ever hit your forehead while on the top of your the light bulb blinking and you just realized you are the greatest idiot who ever walked in this universe? . Or simply know you are brilliant beyond brilliant?
We all have many sides, that mean we have created many experiences…good or bad they are all equal but they are ours to enjoy. Those experience are not the being the being never have changed…just created
It would be lovely to got to know who you real are, the man a spiritual being who has many sides, plays many different games, do come out, with that you would give us mortals a joyful experience
I want to say that I too felt what you are saying coincindentally this evening and for the past two hours have been in an anaten state as though drugged although I’ve taken not even an aspirin. My head was heavy and hot and I felt a great lethargy. Even my breathin has been ragged and my skin has been flushed and running a low grade fever. Emerging from it just now I broke a slight sweat, nausea cleared up, head feeling like i am on Earth and not Jupiter. This was just what I experienced then looked and saw this post.
Each of the twenty-or-so active posters here write as though I could have written their posts myself. Each point of view feels familiar though different in valence.
No wonder, this universe the MEST is a very small place. We all have experienced every form of life, we wore every mask, we all share the same-similar sensations, we all know what is right or wrong, good or bad. We all invalidate, evaluate and judge every incoming thought the do the same in return. We all can mind read, we know everything and about everybody. There are no strangers here, we all have loved each other one time so deeply so completely one heart aches when one understand that all embracing affinity. [ Vin you are not left out my brother]
Than hate was invented to cut those binding in order to separate in order to have a game. Was it worth it?
Of course it was, as spiritual being we are just entering into a new phase in the history of the Universe, we are but students embarking on our greatest adventure, we all are learning about our creation and the why’s . We have a new toy, technology which erases the boring implants……
Only the tech. is new under all the suns……..
Maria, I have no doubt that you are looking at something there. I am not dismissing it. It is certainly there for you. I simply see it differently.
I do not like using the word “illusion.” I would rather use the word “impermanent.”
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Yes Vinaire, I like that word impermanent better too!
My use of the word illusion probably reflects my recent studies into the paradigm shift in the mid 20th century that saw “subjective” reality being relegated to a “scrap heap” of “things we don’t look at because they aren’t really real” i.e. it’s all in your head – illusions, delusions, and other things that go bump in the night – we can’t measure it therefore it doesn’t really exist, etc., all the while depending on the “rational” processes of mind, which is essentially subjective!
The Hindu word is maya, which is incorrectly translated as “illusion.” It basically refers to somebody considering the impermanent reality as permanent and craving for it.
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Dear vinaire, in scientology everybody knows that if you are able to went out of the phisical universe or as-is it then you are instantly free of the illusion of it. In my opinion you can see the permanent reality without having to invest too much time in upper level auditing or meditation. It is reachable for any humang being willing to look to the important part of the existence, the living part and their relations.
The simplicity lies in looking and recognizing inconsistencies and thus as-ising them. The more fundamental are the consistencies that you as-is the faster is your route out of the fixed conditions of this universe.
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Thank you Vinaire. I make no secret of admiring your hard work in both philosophy and mathematics. I know that it takes both a lot of caring and hard work to put these blogs here and to try to make them attractive enough and consistent enough yet fresh enough to be relevant. Kudos.
Yes, I have changed this year. Deliberately through auditing including the KHTK processes and also inadvertantly through blogging. Blogging has come to represent for me the ancient schools of philosophy where one would travel far just to attend and be part of these problem solving schools.
“Blogging has come to represent for me the ancient schools of philosophy where one would travel far just to attend and be part of these problem solving schools.”
Me too!
Good one Chris, I love that idea too
Sitting around ancient moss covered stones under the shade of ancient olive threes…….. the sea nearby….. the gentle movements of the waves intermingle with other sounds.. the hillside glowing.. covered with spring flowers, larks sing…… bees thousands of them about, the sounds fills the air, butterfly’s flutter about, winged critters everywhere, the spicy scent of the air sprinkled with salt… the sky……the sky is blue….so deep so blue… vast dome pure and translucent, if one would ping it surly would shatter……..as we talk the universe listen in and the daisies node they head… agreement..….harmony F/N…. thank you Chris for the memory……
Wonderful! Your progress stands out.
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Do you think you might go Clear on blogging? :>
One blogs after one goes Clear! 🙂
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You are kidding, that is a joke yes?
This is a pretty good question Al. Some of us might plan to . . . maybe.
What IS the result of these meaty (sorry KG) discussions? For me, they are fun and informative and an activity that allows me to test my thinking circuits to see how smoothly they function. Anyone else?
As a group, is like trying to create new circuits, or better, new programs, which would give rise to a new operative system, sustaining a new being which, when ready, will break the shell of this universe to create a new one.
Alanzo If that could be possible to achieve than all the blogger, all the philosophers in the past and present by now would have achieved that state, they would not have the bank.
Just how much knowledge one can accumulate and has by learning, digging into vast store of written stuff. Going clear or OT happens by auditing, auditing is a process of elimination as-is ing.
I was joking.
It’s fun to imagine all the obsessions that one can use to go “Clear”.
What exactly happens when there is a floating needle?
This is what happens when I have a floating needle: I experience a sense of timelessness and here-ness. I experience an expansiveness that is inclusive. I am not caught up in anything. I am completely at ease. Along with this a feeling of joyousness, satisfaction. All is well. All is good.
When I have a floating TA: Waves of joy, and I experience an at-oneness, brilliance, flowing, absolutely drenched in life. So alive I want to cartwheel through the world. I am not separate, rather I am permeating everything and everything is permeating me. And I experience a feeling of wonder and curiosity and aliveness. All is great, all is wonderful, and I breathe the world.
Maria……” When I have a floating TA: Waves of joy, and I experience an at-oneness, brilliance, flowing, absolutely drenched in life. So alive I want to cartwheel through the world. I am not separate, rather I am permeating everything and everything is permeating me. And I experience a feeling of wonder and curiosity and aliveness. All is great, all is wonderful, and I breathe the world.”
Now you have it, in totality…..The bank is erased …….what do you have?
When everything fall away,
Your assumption is that “looking” is very “natural.” I suggest that discernment is also very “natural” and so is formulating one’s own interpretation. You have a particular set of stable data that you prefer and that has been rewarding for you. These things are rewarding for me as well, but I also see that they are not a be-all and end-all. “Vision” is looking too, the lens is simply different and it too can be rewarding.
And as far as the word “unknowable” goes, I sent my friend to the KHTK website. His response was that he did not want to do exercises that would result in becoming unknowable. He saw it as spiritual suicide and that is something he definitely does not wish for. He wants more life, greater life, deeper meaning, and truth – not no life at all and absolute nothingness.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Your friend´s goals of greater life, deeper meaning seem very healthy to me, from my view what seems unhealthy is to be fixed in beingness and also to be fixed in no-beingness.
So, resisting destruction of beingness might sooner or later hit a snag in creation of beingness too. As-is destroy and as-is create go together. Fluidity to assume different beingness or none could a better key to greater life and deeper meaning than being fixed in one beingness, for example.
Of course, each one has to chose and create his own path.
In Scientology, creative processing was very promising in that direction, and I don´t understand why it is not part of The Bridge, It proved to be an extremely efective technique in the fifties, and Ron practically discarded it. Part of the diagnosis consisted in finding what the Pc could not destroy, in all dynamics. It is one of my priorities for investigation.
when we want to really punish someone, what do we do to really PUNISH them:
In “humane” punishment systems, we isolate them. In isolation based punishment systems, the ultimate is solitary confinement. So the punishment is disconnection.
In “inhumane” punishment systems, we isolate them and inflict pain on them. Pain is the body’s signal that tissue is being destroyed. Too much pain results in disconnection from the body’s feedback systems, which is unconsciousness.
Vinaire, this is what the Buddha had to say on the subject of unsurpassed perfect awakening / enlightenment:
“So long, bhikkhus, as my knowledge and seeing of these four true realities for the spiritually ennobled ones, as they really are in their three phases (each) and twelve modes (altogether) was not thoroughly purified in this way, then so long, in the world with its devas, māras and brahmās, in this population with its renunciants and brahmans, its devas and humans, I did not claim to be fully awakened to the unsurpassed perfect awakening. But when, bhikkhus, my knowledge and vision of these four true realities for the spiritually ennobled ones, as they really are in their three phases and twelve modes was thoroughly purified in this way, then, in the world with its devas, māras and brahmās, in this population with its renunciants and brahmans, its devas and humans, I claimed to be fully awakened to the unsurpassed perfect awakening. Indeed, knowledge and seeing arose in me: ‘Unshakeable is the liberation of my mind; this is my last birth: now there is no more renewed existence.'”
This is what the Blessed One said. Elated, the bhikkhus of the group of five delighted in the Blessed One’s statement. And while this explanation was being spoken, there arose in the venerable Koṇḍañña the dust-free, stainless vision of the Basic Pattern: “whatever is patterned with an origination, all that is patterned with a cessation.”
And when the Wheel (of Vision) of the Basic Pattern (of things) had been set in motion by the Blessed One, the earth-dwelling devas raised a cry: “At Bārāṇasī, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the unsurpassed Wheel (of Vision) of the Basic Pattern (of things) has been set in motion by the Blessed One, which cannot be stopped by any renunciant or brahman or māra or brahmā or by anyone in the world.” Having heard the cry of the earth-dwelling devas, the devas of the Four Great Kings raised the same cry. Having heard it, the Thirty-three devas took it up, then the Yāma devas, then the Contented devas, then the devas Who Delight in Creating, then the devas Who Delight in the Creations of Others, and then the devas of the brahmā group.
Thus at that moment, at that instant, at that second, the cry spread as far as the brahmā world, and this ten thousandfold world system shook, quaked, and trembled, and an immeasurable glorious radiance appeared in the world, surpassing the divine majesty of the devas.
Then the Blessed One uttered this inspiring utterance: “the honorable Koṇḍañña has indeed understood! The honorable Koṇḍañña has indeed understood! In this way, the venerable Koṇḍañña acquired the name Koṇḍañña Who Has Understood.”
Excerpted from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: The Discourse on the Setting in Motion of the Wheel (of Vision) of the Basic Pattern: the Four True Realities for the Spiritually Ennobled Ones. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.harv.html
Thanks for the reference.
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This got me studying more Buddhism last night. I love that website accesstoinsight.org.
Anyway, I studied again the concepts of the Khandas, the 5 clinging aggregates. And one line stuck out to me here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html
“In fact, it never quotes him [Da Buddha] as trying to define what a person is at all. Instead, it quotes him as saying that to define yourself in any way is to limit yourself, and that the question, “What am I?” is best ignored.
That is a wonderful quote. Trying to answer the question, “What am I?” is like trying to figure the unknowable. It is a futile activity. It should best be ignored.
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When I ignore it, something happens to me.
Things get very quiet and I extrovert completely.
Good, brother Alanzo!
I think most people have a lot of attention tied into a figure-figure about who they are. The concept of unknowable (which allows no assumptions and speculations) tends to blow all that figure-figure away.
In Scientology, thetan is quite an assumption (or, speculation).
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I now have a much better understanding of “anchor point” and “dimension points.” Please see
Space, Time & Knowledge
This understanding is much simpler than from the definitions given by Hubbard.
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From Tech Dictionary:
ANCHOR POINTS, 1 . assigned or agreed-upon points of boundary, which are
conceived to be motionless by the individual. (PDC 13)
Each dimension seems to have just one fundamental anchor point. There may be fake anchor points. These are dimension points, which are assumed to be fixed, and thus treated as stable data.
Or, it may simply be that different points are assumed to be anchor points by different people, because any one point in a dimension may serve as the anchor point.
So, while answering Maria’s questions it may be be fun to recognize what one is using as the stable data, and how does it relate to what another person is using as his stable data.
But, keep in mind that there would be only one anchor point per dimension per person according to the theory of dimensions.
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Or, it may simply be that different points are assumed to be anchor points by different people, because any one point in a dimension may serve as the anchor point.
The above is where “free will” or “self-determinism” enters into the picture. It is demonstrated in the selection of the “anchor point” per dimension. Dimension points than follow according to that dimension.
“Self” is arbitrary at this point, because it may simply be the first “anchor point” chosen.
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From Tech Dictionary:
ANCHOR POINTS, 2 . points which are anchored in a space different to the physical universe space around a body.(FOT, p. 63)
The space, as different from the physical universe space, is made up of dimensions that are being considered mentally. This space may be called “mental space,” “spiritual space,” or “considered space.”
Each “virtue” would provide a dimension. Each “value” would also provide a dimension. Thus, there can be a large number of mental, spiritual or considered dimensions.
Each dimension will have its anchor point. which may be apparent as a stable datum.
What LRH is talking about as “anchor points” seems to be fixed points in the reflection of the physical space as mirrored in the mind. We have instances of a person having a feeling of a ghost limb, after the limb was actually amputated. There may even be a scratchy feeling or pain in that limb, which is not there. It is a pretty interesting phenomenon.
To me these are simply dimension points that are fixed in the reflection of the physical space as mirrored in the mind.
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From Tech Dictionary:
ANCHOR POINTS,3 . those places which we called in Advanced Procedures and Axioms the sub-brains of the body; control centers, epicenters. (5410ClOD)
This seems to be a “Dianetics” definition as opposed to the “Scientology” definition given in the Factors. This definition hinges on the definition of the body. These seem to be the points from which other coordinates of the body are manipulated. These are the points that are not commanded or controlled, but which command and control.
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Okay Vinnie. THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Math rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great article Vinnie. Gave me a GREAT concept of zero and the line from the Heart Sutra “Form is precisely emptiness, emptiness precisely form.”
1. Why was the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 so life changing for many?
Here the stable data that I have is LOOKING as I have expressed in KHTK essays. The Communication Course was life changing for many because it provided an avenue where one could simply look and recognize the case block which was obviously there in plain sight, but was being avoided.
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2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
I have had many phenomena occur both physical & mental/spiritual, and some I couldn’t describe.
From my experience, a couple of things occur:
1) The counter effort blows off. Even a simple ARCx where one has put out a pressor beam to hold off or counter-create an imagined ‘enemy’. This is like that drawing out of one of the books (8-80?) where 2 beings are each putting out beams against each other – a ridge forms . Once that beam or ridge is dissipated, there is nothing.
A good example: I ran an ARCx which was related to a PT person. I ran it as a ‘type of individual who I continually ridged against; not necessarily that PT person himself.
It tracked back thru various similar beings. I found that in PT I unknowing had sentries or a warning system of fields & beams set up so when I contacted one of these individuals, the field would go up automatically along with a beam. The effort and energy I was putting into this was tremendous but I was unaware of it. Of course the other person had his own system set up to counter-act mine.
I was leaving the Mission after this session, when the door suddenly opened and here was this PT individual. The mechanism was gone – it normally held me ‘away’ from the ‘enemy’ and his held me away from him. The physical result was that I nearly fell over – forwards. I put out feelers to see what was there – nothing, nothing but a light coolness of empty space. As an aside, this coolness I have found occurs on many EPs where my space changes. On my end, there was nothing; no resist; no countering beams or fields; the lack of the aromaticity normally starting up was gone; no reaction of any sort – and the same in his universe. We looked at each other – I had a big grin on my face – he had more of a stunned look on his – he knew he was missing something but not what. I on the otherhand had much expended energy end attention I had no idea of returned to me.
So, that’s a simple ARCx – life changing, but, if the mechanics are are similar to other situations where I have created considerations, automaticities, fields, beams (tractor & pressor) as ‘solutions’ to perceived (fancied or not) enemies or problems, then it is an area of great interest to me. It is, albeit simple, a solution to ‘what I resist I become’.
I could go on & on on different EPs I have had … some run-of-the-mil, some quite astonishing but I better quit for now.
Dennis –
I have a question for you, and it is not meant as an insult or anything negative.
I’m just wondering, do you think you can give your answer to Number 2 without using any Scientology nomenclature, or even any references to Scn tech?
Here’s why I ask: Since this is really is YOUR experience, then the concepts you use to think about them should be able to be totally your own, too, without a Scientology technical context for the ideas.
Is that true?
Or not?
Alonzo, Not a problem.
I’ll take a crack at it – I was phrasing it with some Scientology-ese as the original question by Maria were experiences while doing Scientology processes.
In the long past, if there was an ARCx (upset) with another individual, I would either flee / withdraw, put out a pressor beam/field of energy, or, (and this is the most common one for me) – putting up a screen or field of energy to make myself invisible in order to ‘not be seen’.
In the case I explained above, I had an energy beam going out – let’s say I had a hat-on for that person :-). And he in turn had one on for me and was putting out his own energy.
So, you have 2 flows aimed at each other – they meet and form a ridge or mass of sorts. This happenes frequently with people – it may be the mere mention of an ex-husbands name to initiate this energy, or seeing someone with similar characteristics.
During the auditing, I cleared up my end of this energy so I did not have to do this – it was off the automaticity of it occurring every time I was in a similar circumstance.
Once my end of the flow was gone, the other person had nothing for his flow to push against … thus no ridge or mass in betwixt us.
As I had been doing this for so long to the point that I didn’t even recognize that it was not part of me, the absence of this automatic energy outflow after the auditing was very noticeable.
There now was open space and peace rather than a wall.
I hope that explains it a bit better – tough putting some of this into words 🙂
Just to add,
Energy is used up & down the Tone Scale – it is one of 3 things: a Flow, a Dispersal, or a Ridge.
Wavelengths & amplitude have interesting patterns when one moves upwards or downwards … down – ragged. High amplitude: smooth – approaching a straight line – little or no amplitude
Sorry for the scientologese 🙂
Excellent description Dennis.
I would also like to know of this experience in layman terms without the use of Scientology vocabulary.
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Great description Dennis
Maria –
I am starting to understand the “thought experiment” that you have been talking about here in your OP.
“What exactly happened” is a great way to dig through the thoughts and feelings you have about something. I’ve tried it in a few areas of my life for the last few days, and it is very very useful. It gets to the exact thing that causes the thoughts and feelings. It does bring you to a greater understanding of yourself. It clears a lot of fog.
Thank you.
You are welcome! You know, you contributed to those questions – for a time you were really big on identifying “thought stoppers,” which seemingly explain things and so there is no need to look any further or deeper. Its been an exciting an rewarding quest to quit trying to “explain” everything – in fact where I ended up was realizing (at least on some level) that explanations can be major thought-stoppers! Yep, that’s all sewn up! Move along! Nothing to see here!
Okay Maria, first question:
Why was the communication course, circa 1976 to 1978 so life changing for many?
The context of my life just prior to doing the comm course was a general malaise of out-of-ARCness with just about everybody. I was much too young to be in such an existential funk, yet the people around me seemed to be hostile and domineering, or interested only in stupid, trivial things; the US was still reeling from the effects of Vietnam and inflation. I had too many thoughts, considerations and computations, most not very happy.
Doing the comm course for me was analogous to the experience of being in a movie theater where you suddenly become aware that you are really sitting in a dark room quietly with a bunch of people staring at a screen, and NOT experiencing the “reality” of what your attention is on.
All the thinking, problems, and drama swirled about and hammered and yammered then went away when I first didTRs. It showed me it was possible to find the world and learn to be in communication with people in it and to actually like many of them. My subsequent interest in continuing in Scientology was the tantalizing prospect of directly addressing all that noise from which the TRs separated me on the comm course, by the use of this new thing called “auditing” to permanently de-power the noise from being able to creep back and grab my attention without my permission.
Having been surrounded by assholes for over a decade just prior to the comm course and feeling entrenched and beleaguered, the comm course was a relief. The course was a ticket, “admit one to life”. That was my life-changing experience.
“My subsequent interest in continuing in Scientology was the tantalizing prospect of directly addressing all that noise from which the TRs separated me on the comm course, by the use of this new thing called “auditing” to permanently de-power the noise from being able to creep back and grab my attention without my permission.”
Yes, me too! Thanks for so succinctly summarizing it!
John Doe is a good writer.
Great way of putting it John Doe
Very nice!
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Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
Others have stated it so well here – nothing I can really add.
To me, the duplication of my communication was key.
Sometimes a simple acknowledgment can be miraculous.
4. What exactly happens when there is a floating needle?
Good question – I can only guess.
For me there is a lessening of mass – sometimes to a point of feeling totally empty in a few NOTs sessions I had – not a great feeling but nevertheless, I knew I was rid of something and after a couple sessions I soon was at an even higher level than before. Odd auditing phenomena that NOTs 🙂
I noticed coloured waves of energy & light around me many times when F/Ning – like energy explosions and then they go poof!
As for what’s happening with the meter … at that point – who cares 🙂
5. What exactly happens when a person has VGIs? i.e. what have they “acquired” that produces such a massive sense of satisfaction?
I would say they have re- acquired energy & theta they have had in suspension in their own & others universes.
VGIs – lighter space, less mass, hilarity at the goofiness of one’s own actions within an incident
I am more VGIs or astonished at what I get rid of than what I acquire.
Fine & dandy to get rid of a pain in the zorch, but to me, much more rewarding to get rid of some mode of operating, consideration or automaticity that I long forgot was even there, totally hidden and thinking it was Me.
6. What is the ultimate punishment – i.e. when we want to really punish someone, what do we do to really PUNISH them. Death penalty doesn’t count – it ends the game. I am thinking that by observing what the ultimate punishment is, we can extrapolate its opposite and work out what the ultimate reward probably is.
To deny them their concept of freedom and self-determinism.
7. What activities will invariably result in bad indicators? And what are the opposite activities to those?
Cut communication or beingness
Enforcing asserting one’s own reality on another or others
Having to be right
Not bathing frequently 🙂
Opposite to the above:
Being able to have or not have communications or beingnesses as one chooses without the must have/have not to do so.
Engaging others ideas & communications & realities.
Ability to listen & communicate without having to dominate or be right. Ability to simply acknowledge the communication or actions of another.
A bar of soap.
I see UNKNOWABLE as “the state of no assumption, whether known or unknown.”
And, of course, this is nonsense and irrelevant in terms of any value. 🙂
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Isn´t unknowable your way of saying “not fixed to anything”?
2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
What happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process is that an inconsistency suddenly comes to view and disappears. That inconsistency is different for different individuals. My personal experience may be found by googling “Vinaire’s Story.”
For the categories of various inconsistencies, please see
KHTK 6: INCONSISTENCY
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When an inconsistency blows, there is a sense of freedom, as no longer being constrained by some thinking in one’s mind.
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8. For those who have moments of extreme “illumination” or “enlightenment,” what happened? What shift occurred? How do you see the world differently?
ARC S/W : Came out of session, could hardly hold up body, could hardly feel it, had to consciously put out beams to control/walk. Got car open, sat inside & didn’t know what to do … all automaticities gone. Face very sore from smiling, gut very sore from laughing.
XDN : Had a serious cognition on how insane I was. It sounded like a total out-of-ARC cog didn’t know whether to voice such a cog, but the instant that I did, I flipped from insanity to sanity. Total calmness & peace
OT II : Reading materials – loud cracks in the air and the space surrounding me, energy exploding off me – a real rocket ride. Cog on how the materials of OTII affects individuals on a very large basis unbeknownst to them
OT III : A very busy universe
NOTs : Wild times – many sessions I staggered out of – no feeling, body transparent, hanging onto walls to get to examiner.
Had one session in which a loud crack emanated from my upper chest – like REAL LOUD. The auditor heard it, her eyes widened like saucers and she asked hesitantly “Is everything alright?” as it sounded very painful and like I likely would have toasted my body. There was no pain but an absence of mass in the area – cool air flowed thru and cooled the inside of my body.
Many more sessions I thought I was on top of the world and I could never have a greater cognition only to find there were even greater heights & perceptions unimagined in my next session.
Thanks for the rehab 🙂
Thank you all for your kind comments. I think you are all brilliant, and have enjoy your insights for some time. On to question number 2. (I will give my own answer, although I have to say there were good responses to this and it is tempting to give a “ditto” to a number of them.)
What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP of a process?
I would summarize that by the statement that a cognition is the recognition of a cause. It is often the recognition of one’s own cause in creating the area being addressed with the process, but sometimes that cause can be anothers, or even recognizing that there WAS a cause, ANY cause.
Unquestionably, my most spectacular experience of the cognition/EP phenomenon was my first session on L11. The session was very short. It was a listing process and after groping a bit, I realized my item with some wonderment, with almost a sense of detachment as my mouth uttered the item. My face sprung into a wide grin, like an old rusty cable had been cut and I began to laugh with this deep, body wracking laughter that went on for some time and then continued to erupt through out the next day. The auditor uncorked me; it was almost like I was a spectator in it.
My finger tips and toes were tingly for some hours, and I remember that all I wanted to do after session was to be around people, be around life. Everyone, everything was good and calm.
For hours and days after, I began to see how the cause I recognized in that session had impacted my life, and how easy and natural life would be without that baggage. It took quite some months for it to fully blossom in all its ramifications, to realign everything. It was effortless. The benefit from that session is still with me, years and years later.
That was the biggest wallop in any session I’ve ever had. I’ve had plenty of cognitions on the order of “Gee, that’s interesting” F/N.
Ahh John Doe – I am so glad you mentioned listing.
It has got to be one of the most subtle but powerful processes going.
Answering the auditor’s listing question, getting close on the wording as you compute it, and then WHAM – you get it exactly dead on – now *that’s* a rocket ride.
Grade III was terrific for me and as you say, ” For hours and days after, I began to see how the cause I recognized in that session had impacted my life, … ”
It’s amazing how much impact these items have in daily life. We wander around operating on these things without the slightest inkling it’s happening.
Simply a thrill running these things!
Amen, brother! The process of Listing and Nulling, one of the greatest contributions from LRH.
JD… Listing is one of the most powerful process, i do that with every item I have ever run. that is the first thing I do. today I did the same when i realized I run into a invisible wall. “What is on invisible wall” over and over, Than I look for its cause, than who can couse such, than what is it reason, every question is listed first. etc… The energy blows by inspaction. I have done lists, tens of thousands of them over the years since I solo. Useing of Lists demolishes energy. Lists sorts out what belongs to where one gains understanding too.
3. Why is 2WC so beneficial and under what conditions?
A 2WC is very beneficial when it gets each participant to look, and I do mean “looking” in the KHTK sense.
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“WC can also be beneficial in the co-creation of new realities.
4. What exactly happens when there is a floating needle?
You feel acknowledged about having blown the inconsistency, and the wonderful relief you now have, and the sense of freedom you now feel.
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5. What exactly happens when a person has VGIs? i.e. what have they “acquired” that produces such a massive sense of satisfaction?
Removal of a block, and a sense of relief and freedom.
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6. What is the ultimate punishment – i.e. when we want to really punish someone, what do we do to really PUNISH them. Death penalty doesn’t count – it ends the game. I am thinking that by observing what the ultimate punishment is, we can extrapolate its opposite and work out what the ultimate reward probably is.
The ultimate punishment is not just taking away one’s freedom, but convincing the person that he can never be free.
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Vin. “The ultimate punishment is not just taking away one’s freedom, but convincing the person that he can never be free.”
this sentence summons all up about punishment …….thanks…. fantastic…that is the basic-basic….
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2. What exactly happens at the point of cognition/EP
Objectives: I felt relaxed in present time, the continual feeling of overwhelm dissapeared for several days, my attention was on the environment instead of inside myself. I was looking instead of trying to figure-figure.
Getting rid of O/W´s made me feel at ease, more acceptably human, not hating myself as much as before, willing to act again, to reach.
L&N for serv facs: My item was like a deffensive filter trough which I had been looking at people permanently, non-stop, until the moment of EP of Grade IV. I was not aware of it until the L&N.
On several processes, the EP was the discovery of fixed ideas, automaticities of which I was not aware. Something which I was doing all the time and which I was not looking at.
On many processes, the gain was purely at the level of considerations, like feeling less confused, or more certain, but mainly feeling more at cause, less at effect. validating myself more.
On the first process which I ran, I just felt a very big relief, but never understood what it was related to or why, like dropping a rock which I had been carrying, and no more significance to it.
3. Why is 2wc so benefical
My auditor made me feel completely comfortable, at home, in his universe.
My comm was being accepted with no eval/inval. I could for the first time say what I really was thinking without having to wear a social mask, I could be myself.
Great wins, Rafael !
Rafael: ” On the first process which I ran, I just felt a very big relief, but never understood what it was related to or why, like dropping a rock which I had been carrying, and no more significance to it. ”
Yeah, weird but wonderful.
I remember numerous times on the Grades – say auditing ‘crab apples’ then all of a sudden getting what appeared to be a random item coming in, say a schoolhouse’. I’d push this item away as it seemed to be something random coming in, but it kept popping up. Each time I looked at it I would feel a surge of energy and start to smile, then I’d push it away again, and again.
Finally, the auditor would ask ‘What’s happening?’ … I would voice what was happening and then WHAM!, the cog would hit and all made sense. Why the heck ‘schoolhouse’ came up? I haven’t a clue, but man, what a rush!
The one thing I gained from this other than the cog, was to never invalidate what presents itself during session … weird things just show up sometimes and I go with the flow.
It all comes out in the wash 🙂
Yeah, Man, I remember a couple of times when miraculous things happened with my Pc´s.
From my view, there´s the touch of genius in LRH´s work.
Whatever the reason might be, sometimes auditing slips into the field of awesomely pure magic.
+1
after, when MEST is as-ised there is nothing but magic………. 🙂
What a genuinely good description. Coincides with my experience and attitude about “what is an item.” If it comes up, I take it up. Beautiful and sweet.
Everyone here knows that I write both critically and with admiration for LRH — It just depends on which button I am pushing at the moment. When I am being objective about my subjective reality (hehe) I try to say, “Well now I have experience. What do I make of my experience and how will I decide to project that into the future to a create a more pleasing and consistent reality? And this is tricky because anyway I cut it, my experience becomes a filter, a lens. Sometimes I need and want what the lens will resolve. But sometimes the lens has an aberration that sends my perception augering into into my mind, spot-welding somehow similar but unrelated experiences together into an unwieldy mass which no longer of any use for thinking.
Who else has a “particular way” of dealing with the lens of their experiences?
We should remember all lenses have limited vision and area of focus, I guess lenses are the stable data we use to annalize and evaluate our environment.
I am now working towards being things in stead of looking at them.
This is very good. I agree and think this is the definition of pan determinism.
yes, I audit out the problem, it works every time….
I am working on it. My Tech Estimate is for only 9520 intensives or 119,000 well done auditing hours left to go.
That is fantastic, when you will get there you will realise you just stating out….. since you will be soloing out the whole universe [ wanting to know all those things which go bump in the night] not just the human considerations. Adventure of all adventures…
But again you are comparing universes, not cool, since yours is yours and mine you do not know.
You do not know this.
Ha!
Elizabeth –
I should explain my laughter in the post above.
You said, “But again you are comparing universes, not cool, since yours is yours and mine you do not know.”
And Chris said, “You do not know this.”
I laughed because Chris followed the logic you expressed with his answer to you. If he can’t know your universe, then you can’t know his, either.
Now that’s knee-slapping stuff! It’s logic-geek humor. It’s an acquired taste, and not everyone appreciates it. You would have to own an HP Calculator to really understand.
Alanzo, I am 100% positive that there is no such a thing as 2 idential universe. When you will audit that many hours, or even half as I have lets say 60000 hours by than you will have the same reality, come to the same conclusion. No such a thing exists. You have no idea how I see the black cat and I dont know how you wee the same black cat. Simple as that.
But knowing another’s universe is not the same as those universes being identical.
invention of different wording how to address the existing bank will nor lessens the bank but make it more solid.
LRH has inveted the workable formula which works just fine, so filters, stacking, lenses, are addition to describe aberration. The tech is incradible, it is the most brilliant tech. ever invedted since the Universe stands. It reverses the effects of the implants which was the [implants”] than the most brilliant invention than !!!! Guess who was that, the inventer? Only the person who has part taken in the creation at the first place can invent finf the salution- make a counter invention…which is … bless him for both since without these inventions we would not have much game conditions. And we would never learn what is and why existing in the universe….
Rafael, “I am now working towards being things in stead of looking at them.”
care to explain that to me?
For me this means closing the distance gap to create a rise in understanding.
It would be kind of an inverse of “what you resist you become”, doing it in a causative manner, it ends up theoretically also in as-isness. Increasing affinity and closeness, the best way to know something would be to be it, my approach is by flowing admiration to things. Want to find out how creative I can be
Thanks I have reality on that. That can bring one great adventures. I believe I have been every kind of critter existing or just slider about, or under water, being winged bird, or just ground is solid… etc… these experience made me understand how one is part of the tapestry of the universe.
Last night I was looking at “voice” since I find singing voice the mock-up of it totally fascinating. I have been working on ”speaking” as on item and voices- sounds. One of the recalls was when I sang when I was a wolf. Beautiful recall being a wolf, how to run free and communicate using the sounds which is not in-fact from the throat but from the belly as a wolf one do not think but knows and being totally out of the body. The body is used as a toll. Another highlight was not only the voice, to sing from the soul but love its completeness for one’s mate, here that would be called true love or being soul mates.
Beautiful:-)
I did not felt much love-affinity while being a crocodile, since the body was very heavy totally anchored pulled into the ground, and very slow, but being a monkey[ more than one occasion] I learned great deal about the group, being with the group. Being a Boa live in a forest, that was nothing more than being the part of the forest that whole mock-up. The hunting eating was just supporting the body, nothing more. I was aware of the body as it moved its incredible power as it wrapped around it self the pray I felt the jaw open and the movement of the muscles. But that experience held no trill. Being a bird thought me how to handle other considerations like fly, being airborne again and give up old considerations where I would believe I could only walk. But all my experiences now being summoned up, there were no continual thoughts, there were no considerations not even being or be….. nothing.. The dinosaur bit was just a huge robot munching away….. I have not learned much from that but had rumbling stomach and much gas…… being a fish was cool…….. I felt the beauty of creation while being under water…….. being a plant a flower that was interesting, since I felt being anchored yet connected to space[ there were no boundaries of any kind] experiencing the rays of the sun, it was a lovely experience, theta, flowers are still created by life-force therefore they emanate the same, no wonder flowers are given in celebration and gardening is hobby un-equaled by any other. Being a gnome underground and live in the dark is hiding.
I did my own experiment a while ago. I know what it feels like to have a floating needle and VGIs. So I focused on creating that state. I ignored anything that did not contribute to creating that state. The first time it took me 20 minutes to be in a full out super VGIs floating needle state. I walked about admiring everything, feeling in love, and letting go of all thinking. It was really awesome. Then I tried it by simply repeatedly affirming – I feel great. I am happy. I am so delighted with everything. I even made up a happy little song containing these phrases and I sang them as I walked. Pretty soon I was feeling wonderful and if you put on a meter I would have had a floating needle. Then I decided to see if I could produce VBIs and how long would it take. Not long at all – maybe 5 minutes. It was really easy. I just dwelled on everything wrong I could think of and thought critical thoughts about everyone I knew. Now I find that I can immediately produce a floating needle state, and I am working on seeing how stable it can be. Whatever comes into my space, I meet with wonder and curiosity and no resistance whatsoever.
One of the chapters in the book Dianetics Today – which is no longer published – spoke of how the bridge was a way of drilling a person on creating and uncreating his own mental image pictures and that he would eventually become so proficient that he would be completely at cause over his own bank, turning them on and off at will. This made a lot of sense to me, but I wonder how it works out in terms of using the e-meter — as far as I could tell the idea was that the process was intended to deliberately restimulate charged areas so they could be tracked down and brought under conscious awareness instead of being an automaticity or unseen influence.
Great! See? you naturally went into creative processing. It is a pure jewel, I´m sure. It is a higher level of auditing which is not permitted in the standard bridge. A creative being can not be controlled.
That is the normal auditing procedure:
” as far as I could tell the idea was that the process was intended to deliberately restimulate charged areas so they could be tracked down and brought under conscious awareness instead of being an automaticity or unseen influence”
There is something I don´t quite completely agree on The Bridge: The Pc is allways being controlled, even in solo auditing the C/S is guiding the Pre-OT on the “correct” direction. Maybe he needs guidance at the begining, but there is a point where he should create his own path.
This is the whole point of creative processing:
“One of the chapters in the book Dianetics Today – which is no longer published – spoke of how the bridge was a way of drilling a person on creating and uncreating his own mental image pictures and that he would eventually become so proficient that he would be completely at cause over his own bank, turning them on and off at wil.”
You can search for the engrams and erase them, but you can also, for example, if you are afraid of snakes, create, change and destroy mock-ups of snakes up to the point where you are at cause over them, and the exact engram does not need to be located and erased, the process aproaches it on a gradient, mocking-up items with greater and greater similitude to the snake untill you are at cause over it.
I don´t believe The Bridge today is still going in the same direction, the Pc might gain control over his bank but not over the agreements enforced by the CofS.
Right Rafael 100%
“There is something I don´t quite completely agree on The Bridge: The Pc is allways being controlled, even in solo auditing the C/S is guiding the Pre-OT on the “correct” direction. Maybe he needs guidance at the begining, but there is a point where he should create his own path.” That was the very reason I walked out. But of course I have told them what I thought first, for that I was told SP. I laughed and left. Never looked back.
Crocodiles never forget…
PS: being on insect, dont need that experience the body is to small to pick up anything, being a a blood sucking insect is different while one is drawing the blood one becomes with that being……. heavy experiences one gains from that., revoliting
Who knows what is the story on Creative Processing?
I´m sure it is one of the most effective Scn techniques (if not THE best), why is it OUT OF SIGHT today?
LRH said he could flip out an entire PDH incident with 15 minutes of Creative Processing.
I am sure it can release enslaved people real fast, they shouldn´t have to work their way out it for years, or even allow themselves to be enslaved, for Christ sake!
Dear Rafael, Creative Processing is out of sight today because these procecesses are limited by those factors handled in the band of NED for OTs. Any good new ot 7 comp should start having great wins on this. I am most for admiration processing wich do not need a case undercut.
Tat is very interesting, I should look into it. Admiration processing sounds great too
Thanks!
Rafael, admiration unites and do not dissolves, how do you like that pistol ! It’s the pits I know so You can grit your teeth and bare it, though I know,
I love this stuff…….. 🙂
Please explain more.
Maybe there are two sides of admiration? like as-is create and as-is destroy?
Please explain
Rafael, Sorry I did not get this till now…. I see admiration as “glued, stuck, joined, linked, allied, becoming similar, bounded, confined, trapped, imprisoned, attached, involved, devoted, limited ” to something by something which we like- love-admire the other persons energy-flow pictures, which gives pleasure moments.
We admire that something let’s say a beautiful garden, art form, since we admire that, we hold that picture we incorporate that idea, the picture-energy and with that in becomes part of our universe. We can used that admired loved idea-thought-picture and we can put that idea up as on example, how good, beautiful should be. Since we have evaluated that admired what and whoever all ready and now we can continue hold that idea as or add to that picture, [example: inventions, make them become better more workable, not mousetraps they were created prefect so are the Rudiments. First you admire the girl, than marry the girl, =continuum: keeping the admiration existing solid] With admiration we made that admired picture solid, existing and keep it alive-active as for further stimulation with that it’s continuum is established….
PS: I do have a request if question addressed to me please use my name since bogging to me is like being lost, I have no idea who talks to whom.
As regards Admiration processing, I have been considering the quote below, from The Journal of Scientology, Issue 16-G [1953, ca. mid-June]
The concern of two viewpoints is attention. Each viewpoint is apt to be curious
about or desire the attention of another viewpoint. The most valuable part of an
attention interchange is admiration. Admiration is a special particle. It is a universal
solvent. It is the very substance of a communication line, and it is that thing which is
considered desirable in the game of the three universes. Admiration goes into the
interplay of the universes in the form of made-up objects or even in the form of bodies.
These made-up objects could be called “creative pictures.” These, as they become more
complex in form, take on the aspect of a life of their own and become animated beings.
What KHTK process can we derive from this data on admiration?
Please see
KHTK 16: Some Directed Processes
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Maria……… thank you for bringing up this subject, I never look at this before so here is what I have found, my reality on the matter.
Admiration don’t dissolve on the contrarily we become one=, in fact it’s unite. Example: the admirers of movie stars, some people walk talk dress like the admired person. A school boy admires a pilot he to wish to become one. One admires a poet and that same person read over and over those lines and knows it verbatim: now he too can feel that creative energy…. We buy thing because we admire fall in love with those and we display them in our house, we wear the designer clothing because we admire how that style was created. We tie the admired person to our life we get a licence which insures one of unity: marriage.
Our admiration do not dissolve but we merge with that admired somebody or something by experiencing that the new-ness we become closer in fact that closeness gives on illusion of not being there anymore. Admiration is unifying, combining one with the admired that is the reason not being re-stimulated, have reaction to, accepted, allowed, we can have it in our space, in other words can live with it because the continual love-admiration.
Admiration, flowing admiration is the best way to dissolve stimulation but it will not as-is those admired items- objects- subjects- issues.
That was a very good description and I was with you to the last sentence then I got lost when you said, ” Admiration, flowing admiration is the best way to dissolve stimulation but it will not as-is those admired items- objects- subjects- issues.”
I am confused over your use of dissolved and as-is in the same sentence with different meanings. Please elaborate on this difference.
right………. dissol is the wrong word. Thanks.
Flowing admiration is a good way to key one out but that is only a key out, not on as-is.
Ok got it. Thank you.
Maria….. Cognition continues…..
To create continuum, a new game condition, one wants to separate self from the admired subject since already newly created admired existing. To separate self from the admired one needs distance in order to continue with the different game….. The separating items are: I don’t want it any more finished with it, I don’t like it.
Later: I dislike, hate, aversion, loathing, distaste, disgust,[ indicating, going down tone because still having] and with revulsion one feel, thinks of the same once admired subject [wife, marriage etc..] After that come the actual act of wanting to destroy that once admired: divorce, selling the item[ bored with, lost its value] kill the baggers, pull down the building , burn it chop it, slice it, move out of its space, burry it under ground, deep six it with weights tied to, blow it to up in order to get it out of one’s universe. The being has invented myriad ways, concepts to push away the unwanted now value-less being, object, subject. But cant. Impassible. Nothing will erase but confrontation as in session one can as-is.
The largest lies exist when one say all is forgotten, don’t have it, all gone, I don’t remember it, I don’t think about it, can’t recall, these are the vain attempts to “not- is” to nullify, abolish, eliminate, reverse that creation.
I believe the strongest creation which hold the being in place anchor one to that admired whatever, whoever, is I don’t want it, I don’t have it any more. That gives only on” illusion” nothing more than that…
Elizabeth: “I believe the strongest creation which hold the being in place anchor one to that admired whatever, whoever, is I don’t want it, I don’t have it any more. That gives only on” illusion” nothing more than that…”
Chris: Excellent. Another counter-intuitive understanding to be had. This is a cog I have been having about MEST in general for when I embrace what it is and what I am a great relief floods over me and the feeling of a great oppressive weight being lifted.
Interesting post Maria.
Dear maria, thanks, in my opinion a viewpoint is a person not just a point from which one looks. this nomenclature tends to materialize the being.
Yes Rafael, I understand what you mean. It denies the process of being, the very personal experience of being, the sense of being, the aliveness and vitality and passion and lack of passion and all the love and joy and sense of stretching and permeating and oh my!
Dear maria, i felt duplicated and understood, thanks.
Creative processing fixes the imbalance, or bias, that favors creation and attachment, and avoids dissolution and detachment. We celebrate birth, but we fear death. There is an imbalance there.
Here are some definitions for ‘admiration’.
ad·mi·ra·tion, noun
1. a feeling of wonder, pleasure, or approval.
2. the act of looking on or contemplating with pleasure: admiration of fine paintings.
3. an object of wonder, pleasure, or approval: The dancer was the admiration of everyone.
4. Archaic . wonder; astonishment.
Admiration processing will help one admire things like death, dissolution and detachment even, which one usually doesn’t like to confront, and thus bring a balance like creative processing does.
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I get it thanks.
Alanzo, Thank for letting me know, I feel better for it. Dont forget lots of people read this blog and people who have not reached that stage could believe such, just because it was read here…
You guys are mad – with more than 2000 comments on the blog posts on the front page alone, this is getting to be a cauldron 😉
🙂 Thank you!
Rafael
2011-12-20
The background radiation represent to me chaos in the process of creation of fixed patterns…..
Or maybe raw material?
How about raw thought material? or raw postulate material?
Yes. Any of those significances are good for now. I think I am trying to penetrate the wave function as yet another layer of MEST, but who knows. Not me that’s for sure. If I can believe what I am studying, this is a layer of non-MEST where the “raw material” of the idea that there might be a material. Maybe in the wave-function I am looking at the basic lens through which intention pours focused admiration resulting in the coalescence of a point.
We are just stomping all over the top of what will probably blowdown/cog/FN/VGI’s/DUH! Then I’ll be saying how could i have been missing this.
Yeah, feels as if it were at the tip of our tongues, just about to be expressed…….and then vanishes. I bet is something we have in front of our eyes all the time and we haven´t been able to discern. Maybe haven´t looked at the corresponding datum of comparable magnitude. For me, it is the very basic process which goes from nothing into something, from static to kinetic. I know I am not at the level required to see it or grasp it, I´m only dubbing it in and generating considerations about it, which sometimes end in the stupidest conclusions imaginable Ha ha ha!
Maybe another way of expressing it is that I´m not yet able to really experience the creation of a prime postulate, (if there is where it is), to causatively move between beingness and not-beingness, not-beingness and beingness. Maybe matter and beingness appear and dissapear together
Am I trying to know the unknowable? Maybe!
Am I crazy? That is for sure! But I´m having a lot of fun!
And some of it must be just competence gained as the result of practicing, like riding a bike. We should just continue and keep trying. MEST yields to scrutinization.
Or the raw interface? the interface of everything?
The first raw material of any unborn seems to be chaos but the fixed patterns within are.
Please tell me what you mean when you say chaos, and what is an example of a fixed pattern within and also within what?
Chris, by chaos i mean the apparently lack of order at the origin of the phisical universe. An example of a fixed pattern within is the DNA within the living cells. By within what i am refering to the inteligence within the cosmic matter that had the pattern of the phisical universe since the cosmic origin and that is law with no god to change it. so, free will is not bypassed.
Thank you. This dovetails with something that is becoming a firmer concept in my own thoughts. That is that the universe is set up as a deterministic playground whose rules may not be tampered with by the Beings who with Free Will play there.
Dear chris, this universe is like a big good clock. You can take from him very exact measures on his size and movement but wait, it is build not only from masses, it has within living units with free will that are not objective cause over his overall structure, as it is not is purpose or sense of direction in his existence. What do you think ?.
Alanzo, read in my blog “Let’s look at humor”. trust me I do have great sense of humor without the help of any machinery, Persons without the bank find the bank to be very humorous-those game conditions, since don’t have any drama, loss, sadness , grief, tragedy, injury, hurt, pain, suffering, misery, depression, gloom, sorrow, hopelessness, stress, anxiety, etc……… [ please note, I can list] And I have thought the hyenas how to laugh….hehehe.. we would be sitting about having a mug of fermanted brew, talk of many things, rats and kings and laugh ….. the school still standing in Africa …..
I… I… I… Let’s sing the praises of “I”.
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Vinaire, I… I… I… Let’s sing the praises of “I”.
Cognition on Solidity: ” I” self. This was posted here in Geirs Blog in July the 13th. Care to go to my blog and re-read it. After that we can go sing together…..
The cog, is not easy to explain, but here it is, every time one say “I” with that single letter, one’s drives on anchor point into one’s own universe, establish self as the creator. Holds one,
makes one remaining solidly in that consideration, agreement, one
lives because the “I”, confirms one’s existence, With the letter “I”
the being refers to self, that letter holds the whole concept THAT
SELF, ones Universe in place, it gives location, the “I” activates all
the memory, all ones considerations, agreements, one’s whole track, all
the experiences in one universe is locked in with the key which is
“I”. THE LETTER “I” IS THE RIBBON WHICH ONES UNIVERSE IS TIED UP WITH
AND ANCHORED INTO THE MEST UNIVERSE.
Cog’s continues on the “I” , the wonderful self.
The “ I” no longer needs praise, applause, ovation, since we have created a “monument “ to the “I”.
This shire is the testimonial what we can create, what are our abilities. Every time you walk into a wall invisible or otherwise, stab your toe, hear a sound, voice something, read, touch anything solid Weeeell……You got it… You just run into your creation=solid MEST, the monument to the “I”.
Thanks Vin, I love this, another cognition, which is my very own reality. They are just pouring out. At first it was just a tiny spring, on occasional bubble risen, now it’s like the Congo, swift-roars and runs deep…….
The cognitions are like pearls..
Each one was born out of pain and suffering.
Out of mystery, secrets and darkness,
Yet how beautiful they are!
They can vary in momentarily importance before they vanish.
Yet they remain yours for ever in the form of invisible knowledge.
The basics are the rarest of all pearls, since only few exist!!!
They value buy your freedom out of the MEST Universe.
Oh! I am so wonderful! Look at me… admire me… listen to my cognitions… I am so powerful… I can do everything… I have lived through everyone… I can see through you… I can tell everything about you… you do not have the abaility to understand my universe… I am the prima donna…
The basic basic seems to be the “I”.
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fantastic… you got that right…. thank you…. thank you…. finally you got it right!!!
I had it right from the beginning. Don’t you admire me for that? 😉
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Most interesting to see what was behind the wall, no wonder you did not wanted to come out, you don’t like others to know your human side. You only wished to be known as a knowledgeable wise being.
You should make a longer list the minus and the plusses about how you feel toward me.[ I don’t think you could see any pluses, no] Lists are good helps one sort out things. Vin, your reality whatever you think of me how you see is yours, to you it is true. I am fine with that. The Prima Dona I really like but it’s not me, get a better one.
Yes, you are admired, to dare to vent your dislike openly, that is a big step, do continue….
popcorn any one?
Vin, your reality how see me gives a wonderful example that two universe are not alike. How we see each other is our own and our own alone and the other persons have total- entire different reality. The two universes have very little in common. “What you see that is what you get”.[Flip Wilson, comedian] Your creation, your havingness…. You intake information, evaluate form a new reality according on your old ones…. From that you made, have a new reality…. Alanzo can see this too now. We all have different reality on everything. You can get agreement on reality, on your belief from others, but again the person who agrees don’t really know in totality what has agrees to. Thanks…….love this stuff.. great adventure…. You are part of it. Happy Holidays to you.
There is no dislike. There is only wonder!
Happy holidays to you, Elizabeth!
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The word “person” comes from Persephone, and originally meant persona or mask.
In Greek mythology, Persephone was the beautiful daughter of Zeus and Demeter until Hades, Lord of the Underworld, fell in love with her and abducted her, tricking her into eating pomegranate seeds. It was a rule of the fates that anyone that ate food or drink in the Underworld was doomed to spend eternity there. And thus she became the dread queen of the Underworld. She personifies the cycle of rebirth, growth and death of all biological life forms, the river of eternity of life that flows from one generation to another.
Persephone’s name is commonly derived from “φέρειν φόνον”, pherein phonon, “to bring (or cause) death”. She is the central figure in the Greek Eleusinian Mysteries, which were dramatic shows representing her abduction and reunion with her mother Demeter (the triple Goddess of life) in a cycle with three phases – the descent, (loss, subjection to the body and misery) the search, and the ascent back to soul, I am that I am.
And it was a celebration.
I am right… I am the most admirable… I must celebrate myself… I must live forever…
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Dear maria, i understand, there are not 2 identical masks and so not 2 identical persons. This is a marvelous occasion to celebrate !!!!!!!!.
Maria thank you. Beautiful…..
There are no two identical bodies either.
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Indeed.
Individual: from M.L. individualis, from L. individuus “indivisible,” from in- “not, opposite of” (see in- (1)) + dividuus “divisible.”
Sense of “single, separate” is 1610s; meaning “intended for one person” is from 1889.
Funny how words lose their meaning.
Maria, reading your post made me realise just how little education I have…. on the other hand where I am heading I will not need it. So all is well, I am what I am…happy with that knowledge. .. While reading your post ….I am what you are….See how it works? And while you read mine you duplicate my space and those moments – you are what I am….Thank you for the adventure….
It is simply speculation that there is something indivisible underlying it all. I doubt that.
I think that the reality is more like irrational numbers.
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Me too.
I call this problem the egg on the table paradox. the child in the morning wake up and sees an egg on their parents kitchen table so his logical ” deduction ” is that this egg self-created itself from the nothing while he was sleeping. But you can be sure that he enjoys eating it on the breakfast while his parents look at him very satisfied.
VIN: “Oh! I am so wonderful! Look at me… admire me… listen to my cognitions… I am so powerful… I can do everything… I have lived through everyone… I can see through you… I can tell everything about you… you do not have the ability to understand my universe… I am the prima donna…” The basic- basic seems to be the “I”.
Vin, there are more than one response to your whatever above.
Tell me just how much cognition have you read of late here in the last few posting in Geirs Blog outside of mine? Here in Marias tread, there were many excellent comments and re-called fantastic wins from the past… but only by a few, Where are the other commenters where is their wins, their write ups what has worked for them and why? Out of 374 comments mine is 81, So where are the other winners?
But why not noticing that in this tread there were very few bloggers-statements in comparison to the other which got nearly 1200 hits?
Scientology should to be all about is going up on the Bridge, through cognition attain new levels. It seem to me if one continues with the Bridge, has zillions of cognitions, because that person was given up her regular life in order to dedicate her time to erase that BANK, she is weird, has become a prima Dona, a show off, demanding admiration and claimed incredible , unusual things which she can do.[ but those are the things people got into scientology for, walk through walls, see through things, understand bird talk, read what is the future brings, levitate, have power, read minds and million other things, yes and have total reality on one’s past track-creation!!!!!]
We have a little out reality here. If one believes in scientology and that it works, than how come [bloggers] why not fallow the outlined Path the Bridge and continue? [so few has]
If only 10% of the bloggers would continue with being audited or solo auditing, I would not be out of reality, this weird bird that has daily sessions and cognition by the hundreds. [now that is not OK, impassible too]. But this blog would have dozens of others beside me who would be posting happily their cognitions.
And My blog would not be the only blog which is totally based on Path, “the walk the walk of solo auditor” but there would be dozens who would be happy to share how they too did it their PATH their way…
Vin, look through the many Scientology blogs and come to the conclusion just how few wins are posted among the tens of thousands postings, but there is hell of a lot of negative nattering.
Yes I am different, has to be by now, and that difference is judged by the beings who read those cognitions. [ there is no reality on me and I don’t demand such since I know that is impossible while looking through filters] One thing I know for sure, many who reads my cognitions put me down as Banky, hysterical moody, etc…[private emails]. These beings do not realize that one can express every thought freely, write about, but do not mean one is that.
Me being labeled is fine, people have to pull down to their own level to evaluate from own reality whatever information comes in.. With that there can be a justification why nor continue with the Bridge, since Elizabeth is not a good example… tell me Vin, if you had so much gain being in Scientology how come you have not continued and had auditing? Than by now you could be having cognition on the basic “I”. And I would be delighted to read your cognition.
It seems, the one who has continued is a rare weird being and for that she deserves to be punished, made fun of, by doing so get plenty agreements from others that auditing cognitions are totally bad than it is a good justification not to solo or being audited since makes one weird!!
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Vin…. you can’t make me wrong no one can, and you know why? Because every time I go into session and the reason I go into session is because I know I am wrong and want to know what is right, what is that makes me wrong and why…. And out of those tens of thousands of wrongs there is lots of right come out, but let me tell you, I have a long way to go, since I am just staring out.
Alanzo,………But knowing another’s universe is not the same as those universes being identical.
I dont totally understand your statement care to explain ?
Dear rafael—-This is a marvelous occasion to celebrate !!! Yes, it is fantastic, …If you were here I would offer you a flute of bubbly…. in celebration… happy holidays.!!
Dear Elizabeth, yes, i am on a festive mood right now and thanks, your positive attitude is a great gift in these seasons. My best wishes to you.
Vinaire, ….There is no dislike. There is only wonder!
You have my deep admiration for communicating what you felt, your reality always welcome no matter what. While one walks The Path of Light one encounter wonder, friendships are those. Thank you for yours. Love is returned, have a wonderful journey.
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Maria just because of you… thank you. Pleasure moments …….
Pleasure moments.
LRH only say a few words about pleasure moments in the dictionary: “only addressed if the PC is stuck to it, blah blah….blah.
I ask, who has not been stuck to the pleasure moments, who do not reach for those moments continually? Who do not postulate that to happen for the future, I ask? Who do not buys, collects, eats drinks wears and talks of things which cause the pleasure moments?
Who do not celebrate, prepares feast and servers the best foods, wines, and pops the corks of champagne bottles lifts the glass in celebration? Wears clothing, from those items the color the texture, designs gives pleasure to have and feel, experience. Just think of dinning out: the restaurants, the dishes all there to present to give a pleasure moment. Concerts, plays and games of kind’s carter to all the different tastes [reality] all created to do the same, for enjoyment.
Holiday resorts, ocean cruises, any kind of adventure, all there were and created, dreamed up to please all the senses….. Just think, the gifts given and received by billions each year, the love making, the loving, all are there to please….
The gardens… to visit to enjoy, the books, billions of them there are to choose from to enjoy. The various courses, numbered in thousands all contain knowledge and are offered to learn from to enhance ones enjoyment, pleasure of having…in pleasure of living…
The great collections of arts are there to enjoy and these were created by pleasurable experiences too….. So are the prostitutes, booze, smoke to inhale…the lamp light, and the star-studded indigo blue space…..dew drops on every blade of grass in the first morning light…..
No matter where one looks what one experiences one time or other, was created to cause please…..
So what are Pleasure Moments? Simply what is living, what humans consider what is life here on Earth.
Knowing that everything is part of the bank is just fine nothing wrong with that one is not less having in one’s possession such a knowledge and that do not give one reason to dash out buy 3 meters of rope and hang self to get away from the created-the bank.
No…..But it is good to know when one gets into session everything can be handled equally, since on the long run the bad and the good have equal value: none.
To be free as a spiritual being, to be cause, total cause one has to as is all the MEST in order to be free. To start the game all over again but this time in new unit of time by having knowledge under ones belt and that way one will never be trapped again in the solidity of the agreed considerations.
I do wish you the great adventure embarking on that Path of Knowledge: the self-discovery. .
Silvia Kusada put out a great post on Nothing-ness… my comment on that read if interested…
Nothing there……. Good one…… that is the most incredible statement to make, or on idea to believe in, accept, to agree to, admit or acknowledge while one is walking the Path, the spiritual path… when one believes, knows there were past life’s that we had lived and experienced infinite life’s in many universes, we been everywhere and did everything…
And there is nothing more after a few hundred auditing sessions? Incredible… absurd, illogical …. Irrational thinking… In my reality and I have had immense amount of sessions, and I have recall: total and wide open and I realized how little I have seen so far, how immense experiences I have had over the eons and I am just starting out…
The nothing-ness “ that concept- impression, idea- thought- theory -“and most of all the “Agreements” hold the past- covered- walled protected in, buried under, made invisible. The nothing-ness is the key which opens the door to everything we ever been, ever done…….. It is all there within inside the nothing….
Holds great importance to have many sessions as passible what in the nothing-ness what is invisible— Since our greatest deeds, our power is hid under- beyond those invisible walls.. [Our power is hidden so we can be same as everybody, so we can fit in, be one of the group, to be accepted.. be part of the game…etc…]
The nothing-ness is the shield the armour, the wall- barrier. The very defence we put there so we don’t remember, can’t recall, evoke have no memory of, for the past to become none existent… in order to play a game in new unit of time.. Yes that is good in theory but not in practice..
Those thinks which are covered up hidden behind the invisible walls the none existing hold the person in place, encased- wrapped- enveloped unmoving… imprisoned …………
FOR SILVIA WITH LOVE………………you have inspired this cognition… thank you… and for you Geir, since I have thought of you too while exploring these thought.
The most difficult thing, tough item, a condition, state to confront is the very belief that state is in existence, in fact there is such a condition-form- situation is “Nothing-ness” the there is such none-creative periods one can experience, therefore the being will do anything not to be in that experience.
That is the reason the “Nothing-ness” is motivator the drive the impulse the urge, makes the being continually running around in circle and do do do do= make … organise….create a must have, a necessity a need, a compulsion to a fulfill a duty, in order to experience in order to be, somebody or something long as that something is experienced practiced …… without that continual creation those experiences the being feels and have the impression: of empty, void, hallow vacant, unfulfilled, bare, dead, lifeless, nothing, nobody, useless ,cancelled out of life, not living…………
That “Lifeless” condition which is being without any momentarily experience the LIFE-FORCE that FIZZ that BOBBLY effervescence that is what the being can’t stand, since that “LIFELESS” condition that none creative period the ”Nothing-ness” is a condition which makes the being believe the a condition exists: a state when one is = dead ….unconscious …unmoving .. unresponsive… motionless…. still .. stationery … so lifeless and very heavy and feels the weight of the body the planet and the Universe….. rightly so when one is not in the creative mode than one feels the past and those things created …
To get back into the creative mode to get out of the “Nothing-ness ”experience again the being reaches for something within the beings reality level Whatever that maybe: plant flowers, buy something, go on a vacation, kill, create a condition for war, design a house, get drunk, beat one’s spouse, write a book, invent a new gadget, go sailing, listen to Mozart, or go dance the salsa…. Get e new partner, get rid of the old partner, get sick, or get healthy, anything will do since all those thinks are stimulating to a curtain extend and while we have that stimulation we can think of something to continue with something new….. OH…. The hamster running in the spinning wheel and that is our life here …..
I will post this in Geir Isene’s Blog and mine too…… Elizabeth Hamre
endlesstringofpearls@gmail.com
I do understand that my comments here dont have enough value to have tham ack.. But There are and have been some persons who have found my reality a life line to their existance to contenue and have hope that they too can achieve what ever is meant to be achieved in the future…to contenue their own Path… for those even if there is only more being out there that gives me a reason to walk into none existance….
There is minus and plus neede to have a game condition…
everything ever created in the Universe that is the balance hold the universe as-is. By that I mean example: hot-cold… death –life…. dry-wet …heavy-light .. solid-transparent…etc..etc..etc. Plus there are all the combinations go with those basic items… endless creation in the endless universe… We as creators have and hold to heart the brilliance-knowledge and ignorance –stupidity at the same time which we can’t live without: the very nature to the being. Because that is the condition: to have the game: must and must not to have, be or not to be…simple rules of the game…What I find interesting about the Bank one can describe it millions of different ways, since it was made millions of different ways. One can think of it as millions of mirrors reflecting each other and the scenes they contain yet not totally alike just similar……….. I never have tired of the things I have seen so far, on the contrarily, more I see- understand more I am intrigued by its complexity of the singularly created item as it has become over the eons..
The reason for that such a complexity: Simple: we are brilliant, beyond the wildest imagination, we are so incredible that words can’t describe. But what equals our incredibility? Well, that is very simple our ignorance, unfamiliarity, inexperience, lack of knowledge the reasons, the whys the how’s we have created and become what we are.
My answer for the creation such a complex whatever because we have played the same games over and over and over again, now if there would not be any variation to the game…welllll…. That would be very boring, dull, uninteresting, unexciting, so we put a new twists to the old stuff [ new body, different name, location different gender, occupation, and ideas like I must learn in order to know, I don’t know a think, there is no other life but this] which gives one a bit of enthusiasm to continue and the false believe that we are in fact controlling that game…
To gain enlightenment- explanation – information – insight – reasons – motives – aims for the drives for all the ” what the whys” to understand the full picture one must walk backward on that long track. But in fact that is impassible to do, since our creations long since melted –vaporized- vanished- evaporated in the Universe.
If that would not be so than the caves where one once live they still would be there so is the battle fields, the huts, the cities, the fields we worked the chains would be there in the prison cells, and the marks on our back from the whips or we still would be holding them. they still would be there. We carry our true creations in the invisible form : those postulated actions of the past, that is our track only the solid part is which melted away…
So walking back on the track is only on expression. What actually happens in session is “the Phenomenon;” where we re-assemble the incidents, the postulates we put together those pictures we recreate from the sensations those colors sensations feelings shapes size sounds as they were way back Quantum mechanics I think that is called, but don’t hold me to that… For that to be accomplished we only need one tread, we re-build the rest…. Since we never really have last it..
When we accomplish that, we find and understand the very reason we had that postulate the reason for it and what we wanted to accomplish with that.. That understanding is the cognition…
Each being one can find that so called invisible track and the answer the reasons to its existence in one’s own universe….no other has the answers.
elizabeth hamre endlesstringofpearls@gmail.com
Thank you.
where we are at, ones case level, in reality…. ugggghhhh
Reality can be when it hits, comes in as new awareness=cognition, like a ton of brick it and be so strong that it shatters all the previously established reality. One is flattened, one find self in pieces ones universe that is. Sort of reeling as one view ones universe and wonders, now what is next? How this effect will be on me, and now what the next step, is there a tomorrow and what it will bring?
Major cognitions have major effects.. when that happens ones sees one’s life rolling past front of eyes, in my case the knowledge the understanding of things shifts with speed of light as the blocks – masses of different reality re-arranges itself. Literarily one can experience “see” the re-lined energy a fascinating phenomenon.
I have been on a steady level, for a few weeks, not to many sessions, or cognitions, I felt I was walled in; of course the walls are the heavy winter days, cold and gray beside other thought still sipping in.
Today’s cognition was brought on by the communication with Chris. [Thank you Chris]. I see Chris reaching for the stars, looking for realities, outside of the MEST universe. Nothing wrong with that since we all want to know what is outside of the MEST if there is such a thing as outside of the MEST.[ there is no outside or inside: those are just believes that there is such o thing. Only solid object have inside-outside… the words were coined so we could communicate, to know the mugs outside is glazed red….
But what I have not seen Chris doing all these past months, not writing of every day stuff which happens in ones daily life, I have not read any cognitions any thought on the basic= daily stuff happening. That was not real to me, since I believe and my reality is one must handle the incoming daily stuff, no matter how mundane they seem. Through that daily confrontation, even if one has to look for the reason like: ones ingrown toe nail one can achieves the understanding everything which includes the Quantum mechanics, one can experience the speed of light etc…. Through the confrontation the daily ARC B’s one finds stuff the original creation the original energy which can go back before time was ever invented. In this case the now ingrown toe nail long time back a galactic explosion has been and now just a painful toe. This is on example how we become small in creation an ingrown toe nail is a manifestation which could have been and usually was zillions of years back.
No matter how minute one’s ARCb’s exists in now with the incoming daily , problems the original energy on which that ARC B could have been built on old as the Universe itself.
So back to my cognition, I realized that why all the persons everyone who ever had a cognition through auditing and felt out of this world, felt that could move mountains, even the universe. Felt the power, the joy which could not be expressed with words. Felt that finally they have achieved their dreams, they reality and finally they were at home with that touched experienced the “”self’s “” original state how it felt when one was not sitting in the MEST walled in solid by one’s own agreements. And what that Grand State that has been!!
Yes, all that is true, that is how cognitions feel-what is. . But that was as the item was erased, it was just temporarily – briefly – momentarily regained state one just got a glimpse- hint – clue – foretaste of that reality what is like to be without the Bank out of the MEST way back till that MEST closed in again.
But after that comes the key-in back to the MEST and that time the reality, its impact is much harder – solider to experience – more difficult to take, experience, the reality is harsh-er – more severe to be in. It feels like one is fallen from Heaven into Hell. What is the reason for that? Simple, one felt Paradise few sort period of time the Heaven for the first time since eons. Just how far one falls tumbles, descends back to Hell?
Far as ones lowest heaviest thoughts, considerations agreements are.
I do realise, how difficult is being in that state and how one yearns to be out of it and to be again in that keyed out state. But that only can be achieved if one continually confronts that daily everyday mundane stuff, the everyday doing-ness , simple things, the uninteresting things. By doing so the universe slowly reveals itself again as one erases those walls.
Ones heaviest thoughts, agreements, compulsions, the must haves which for humans is sex- food sleep believing in such as death, life- and the believe in their value, any need of stimulations in regular form hold that being in the MEST. One only can be or one is far as ones heaviest compulsion thought agreement are, in other words one’s case level is just that –there.
Since humans have fear, and the fear hold all in place and that establishes the case level it’s basic which is fear. [of course there are keyed out instances, which could last, so there is fluctuation but the fear is the base which holds the being solidly in the MEST. You can ask why fear exists….. Because value exist. … One believes in good- noble, in bad – evil – wicked, better- superior or worse, inferior, second rate – wise- stupid etc…. Those are minus and the plus which holds the MEST games in place, without those conditions there are no games. We play therefore we pay…
I wonder from where that saying is originated” there is no free ride.”
This is the reason after cognitions the person seems to lose that height and that incredible sensation – awareness – perception – insight –acuity –wakefulness – the being has descended- plummeted back to the bank.. Where none of those things are present…existing… But one never lost the wins, no matter how deep one plummets… falls back, that will remain with the being those wins are the first truth the being ever realized..
The cognitions are like pearls. Each one is born out of pain and suffering,
out of mystery, secrets, and darkness.
Yet how beautiful they are!
They can vary in momentarily importance before they vanish.
Yet they remain yours for ever in the form of invisible knowledge.
The basics are the rarest of all pearls, since only few exist!!!
They value buy your freedom out of the MEST Universe.
For your future you have my best, my postulate,
On endless string of pearls of great beauty.
endlesstringofpearls@gmail.com
Hi Geir here is one so far no one has written about.. I hope it gives insight… Do well my friend…have fun… beside my blog i put this into Silvias.
I was asked the question: why OT’s die off…..here is my reality…Edit
January 19, 2012 The question was: Why the OT’s die off.
Ugh!!! There are millions of reasons for that and I am not blowing this up one bit.. making it look more than as is, I will give a few reasons here.
First of all the OT did not die but the OT pulled in a picture which was to destroy, to separate from the body in order to finally get away from the boring game condition was in.
Also the body has hundreds of devices invisible of course implanted that the body should expire, the body has reached its expiration date, same as in any food item can, gone off, no longer good enough to eat, spoiled etc…. After all these meat bodies too was used for food in the past by other beings, was grown and harvested for that purpose alone.
There are literally millions of reasons one leaves the body. These reasons are ALL CONDITIONS, every one of them. IF on OT pulls in a cancer, he used that item before in order to get free from the body, it worked than and that postulate is still there in good working order. Also cancerous cells are different from the regular cells, we did have bodies which have contained those cells and had no cells in that body like this body has. So the being brought the old mock-up and it is mixed with this mock –up. The cancerous cells are much stronger since those bodies had a much stronger energy flows so they just simply take over and grow and grow…in poorly made body.
BUT All conditions can be audited out, no matter what they are. If one has changed one’s mind, and do not wish to drop dead, leave the body than pick up the cans and audit out the conditions….. very simple… auditing works on all levels on all condition.
Who ever said the person has no bank left after OT 8 and all was erased: the- conditions, situations, problems, difficulties, disorders, maladies, ailments, illnesses, diseases, all the ARCb’s. which the person had with self and with the universe.. well , that is not the case… on the contrary … we all see the conflicting evidences which are existing… so the end was not achieved the solo auditing should be continued…
The person who has attested to that state or any state no matter what, just have learned gotten education about the MEST universe, has erased some of it, but just opened- unlocked and released some of the item in the package: which is the personal universe=bank.[ and where are the items which one can audit which is the universe itself? Everything existing which one sees around self?
Who could erase with few hundred or even few thousands of auditing hours the millions of life time’s zillions of crossed over interwoven, thoughts, created and recreated, altered and altered again items, in thousands of different forms? Hundreds of thousands of different bodies one had over the eons, all have gone all have vanished everyone was destroyed by others or self.— those distractive ideas of the past are still usable and in good working order and they are in the possessions of the being… So the OT just reaches into the invisible bag pull out one and bingo he drops the body…. all the relatives friends scientologist say, OH the tech do not work, scientology killed the poor bagger.
Bloody Hell that is ignorance if the highest order, should be medal given for that out, blame at the bottom, stupidity and most of all the material was read but never duplicated… otherwise one would not think in such ignorant – unaware -un-knowing in the dark – murky- gloomy fashion.
So why the OT’s die off? Only that OT could tell you why he wanted to go, do trust me, if he or she would not wanted to go drop the body, he would still be here…. It might seem that the being say NO-No-NO I don’t want to go it is not my wish, but if that person would have few sessions while ill, thinking of suicide, he would find that reason why pulled in that mode – method –type – kind of thought, considerations old agreement which will separate him from the body. The tech, works, auditing do erases the bank: the not understood, the effects of the accumulated the MEST.
Please let’s live the blame and let’s take responsibility for all the game conditions we are in… and be content satisfied with the thought no matter what and where one is, we are there because it was postulated by the self….
PS: Few more thought I would like to add, after having auditing the being has reality that he is a spiritual being and he do not die that he lives and he is infinite only the body is being null-led – die – expire
So many OT’s or on any level the being thinks why bother to stay here be in the conditions which are not pleasure but pain on the ass, so they pull in something and happily go and start a new game where the grass is greener. Having cognition when the being realizes that one is a free being, a spiritual being those cognitions hold great power and that power too can free the being from the body..