The past two weeks have been the busiest ever on this blog. I have been blogging like crazy and some 4000 people have been reading. Lots and lots of comments. And through the many concurrent discussions on half a dozen threads, I have seen a shift in how people here view Scientology. Save for a few commenters, the majority seem to have expressed a rather pragmatic view on Scientology. That Scientology as a whole is indefensible and that one must use what valuable tools there are, combined with any other tools, to serve an individual’s own goals and purposes. That it is wise to not abide by Hubbard’s own goals for you and instead seek to fulfill your own.
Personally, I have clearly expressed that I am not interested in salvaging Scientology as a subject. I want to instead focus on the personal goals of those crossing my paths – using whatever tools needed to help them reach those.
It would be interesting to hear from you what you consider to be the reason for this shift in atmosphere (or if I’m totally off the mark here).
Geir Isene - uncut 
I don’t think you’re off-mark. Thanks to discussion under the last table post of yours I experienced a major shift in viewpoint about the study tech too.
I think that there were many good observations and arguments, even if the discussion went a bit off the original post. So while it may have been that you wrote good post on good topics, I think that the main aspect is how great bunch of people you managed to attract. I always look forward to what Maria, reformed version of Alanzo ;-), Chris and others very often too will write.
I too have thought that it is worth talking about specific parts of Scientology, not for the purpose of “improving it” as I don’t believe that is going to happen on a blog, but to sort out the misinterpretations and missing data.
+1
profant: I always look forward to what Maria, reformed version of Alanzo ;-), Chris and others very often too will write.
Chris: Thank you and it’s an honor to read your well thought out posts as well. I have made many improvements and culled a lot of useless and fixed ideas while commenting on this blog thanks to the many often brilliant comments like writers like you.
Oh, I’m blushing!!! 😀
Profant says: the main aspect is how great bunch of people you managed to attract.
Yes, there has been a core group of people that have doggedly and sincerely explored, debated and discussed the subject of Scientology from whatever viewpoint Geir posted from, often exploring well beyond the opening post. Geir has allowed a freedom of debate and discussion never before seen on the subject of Scientology, almost entirely free of trolling and people bashing — that makes a big difference in the quality of discussion possible.
I have come to respect, admire and value the integrity and sincerity of the various people who post here and bring their own personal research, information and viewpoints to the table to discuss and clarify the subject and experience called Scientology and diverse materials pertinent to those discussions.
I think the big shift began late last year, with a post of an email sent to Geir by a reader on this blog, decrying the use of the term Independent Scientology to create yet another insular group of people with a series of belief statements that clearly excluded those who did not agree with their ongoing derogation of the corporate Church. In that thread, the practice of derogatory labeling, exclusion and dehumanization of dissenting voices became the hot topic. It was echoed in late December on Marty`s blog in a post entitled: Judgment.
And then Geir kicked it all into high gear with his post describing what is attested to on OT8, a result that I recognized as remarkably similar to the process prescribed for the condition of enemy. Boy did that accelerate the shift I had been seeing!
Maria: “And then Geir kicked it all into high gear with his post describing what is attested to on OT8.”
I think you are right, not that it was a secret anymore as could be found elsewhere, but to have an interesting discussion on an blog about it was a very a brave pivoting point.
Naturally no one individual is responsible for the greater shift, as it is a powerful source of the many, named and no-named who are tuned into it.
Thanks. I’ll have to check it out as sometimes I was too busy to keep track with all the posts of Geir’s.
My opinion of the reason for this shift in atmosphere is that you yourself had a shift and because of that expressed shift you have pulled in the types of posters who also have that viewpoint. As well, it is nothing new that many of the regular posters tend to agree with whatever you have to say as you are their OL.
A more basic (although probably esoteric to some) and perhaps more accurate explanation would simply be: Law of Attraction.
Well, I’ve noticed this shift, too. It’s been huge. And it is not just happening here.
Marty has shifted, Mike has shifted.
I think that a person, once they leave the controlled information environment of the Church, starts to wake up and think more for their own self interests. They also seek out new ways to interpret Scientology, new ways to see their “wins”, and they start to accept sources of information they forbid themselves from considering before.
I think that process has produced this shift that Geir is talking about among many individuals. And those individuals speak to other individuals.
And pretty soon the thought control of the cult has no effect on many people any more.
It is a huge dissipation. And it is good.
Alanzo
It’s a huge dissipation alright.
Perhaps more the result of individuals influencing others. Not necessarily ex’s, FZers or Anons, but others who have read the latest bestsellers about scn or who have been in similar cults and offer their views. IMHO, six degrees of separation can be cut back to just one or two with broad public media releases – and recent bestselling tell-all books and articles about scn have widened the path to ease many out of their thought control bubbles. Many more than the names we know, and probably out of many more cults than scn.
I agree. I think it has to do with a person’s willingness to consider other angles, other explanations, other sources of information. They widen their information pool and that is what changes everything.
I remember back when I was in Scientology, I would self-censor, and I would block off “non-standard” ways of seeing the world.
Then I read a whole bunch of books on critical thinking and realized how catastrophic that had been for me, and what I had been doing to MYSELF, let alone what anybody else was doing.
Alanzo
Did you experience any shifts in your viewpoints? If yes, what?
As for posters agreeing with whatever I write, I will let the sheep themselves answer that one.
But consider this; If that was true, and I am a very, very weak OL to people than compared to LRH. Would you then say that most Scientologists agree with anything LRH writes just because he is such a huge Opinion Leader?
He was a huge opinion leader because he was a master of personal PR. He created himself as a legend in his own time and by the time I joined Scientology in ’76, the PR machine was running full time. In retrospect, there were many things I observed from the very beginning that showed a lack of understanding, but I was still riding on the wins I had experienced and chose to ignore all that did not fit the narrative.
I have ‘changed my mind’ many times while in here, but I don’t remember my old minds anymore, so I cannot tell. In general terms….you can say a more pan deterministic viewpoint, as I see both positive and negative opinions about topics and consider them to some degree my own…
I think whatever Geir tells me to think. It’s the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.
Good sheep, Alanzo. I knew would come to your master’s rescue.
Alanzo
Love your humour!
Alanzo, Hip, Hip Hooray! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Alanzo: I think whatever Geir tells me to think. It’s the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.
Good!
Now that you know that you know, I, hereby,
By the powers that Geir invested in me,
Certify that you have achieved the state of Certainty on Geir
And officially welcome you to the Geirologist Cult………I mean Community.
Now, say after me…..
I am right because I know that Geir is right
And know now that nothing can harm me……
Geir, I love your lack of censorship and open exchange of ideas.
I had something of a shift of viewpoint here, but it had nothing to do with scn, and it was only indirectly related to your blog (one thought led to another that led to another that led to another). Regained hope, you might say. The concept that not everything needs my personal meddling to come out alright. The concept that if I only do what I know I need to do, that everything else will work itself out. Renewed faith in my concept of God and the interrelatedness of everyone.
I feel on solid ground here and recent successes in my life reflects that this new view is right for me.
Because it’s all highly personal, isn’t it? We make our own paths. If I find a path mapped out ahead of me, I know one thing – it isn’t mine.
I should add that I can’t think of another blog discussing Scientology where the owner faces this much disagreement and flak. All for the better, I think as censorship should be reserved for the most extreme of cases and not for general discussions regardless of how opposing the viewpoints are.
Yes, this is great about your blog. We can cross swords freely, and because of this, I believe we don’t have to hate each other for having disagreed…and we can also eventually agree 🙂
Spyros
HaHa….love what you write!
🙂
So you’ve praised yourself for mild moderation 😀 – and you’re right. Another attribute of success, it seems.
I’ll take it one step further – I think this is the only blog where people can freely discuss Scientology.
Well you now have this statement supported by Maria, so it makes it almost as true as scientific testing 😉
But seriously, you come across as mild and logical. I think it simply meets expectations of many people – well one of mine certainly and I then tend to regard it as something natural, while other blog owners are seldom that way. So yeah, I tend to fail to fully appreciate this safe environment.
profant: “So yeah, I tend to fail to fully appreciate this safe environment.”
Chris: “Many people do, especially the few who abuse when they show up with chips on their shoulders or fear as I did. Some of the things I used to write look strange, solid, and fixed to me when looking at them now. This blog was pretty safe when I got here and if any change, it is safer now.”
profant: “But seriously, you come across as mild and logical. I think it simply meets expectations of many people – well one of mine certainly and I then tend to regard it as something natural, while other blog owners are seldom that way. So yeah, I tend to fail to fully appreciate this safe environment.”
I’d go one step further:
Geir is into looking and listening.
Too many other blogs are into punting conclusions that have already been made.
Or we can make it even simpler.
Geir says “I’m looking for stuff that works”.
Many other blogs say “Scientology works! Let me show you how?”
Which one of those promotes communication?
I would agree with this.
It is certainly the only blog (besides Tony’s) where Alanzo does not have to apologize for being Alanzo. Some people here WANT him to apologize for being Alanzo, of course, but he does not have to apologize in order to keep posting here.
Alanzo
Agreed and your lack of censorship is courageous. I was surprised at your renewed participation this past month. This injection of energy surely shows in the traffic.
Isene: “censorship should be reserved for the most extreme of cases and not for general discussions regardless of how opposing the viewpoints are.”
You handle so well and you let others speak their own minds with varying opinions and let them be themselves.
My personal shift in atmosphere has been from reading all the comments and your posts which allowed me to Balance my own perspective on the subject matter. I love the intelligent opinions and humor which have been inspiring, helpful and fun.
Thanks 🙂
“where the owner faces this much disagreement and fak” – yes and I should add that the owner exposes himself to different energy types as in artillery and by confronting them he himself changes by which there are shifts in his viewpoints which, when expressed, other viewpoints have a chance to confront by which there is Change at an energy level too….more and more conscious control over energy….
“expressed shift”, “Law of Attraction” YES
Geir: What I have been noticing that you do, something that I think is really valuable, is that after a certain point in a series of discussions you draw conclusions and write them up as a new post, often summarizing key points in the discussion. This facilitates and keeps the exploration process going.
I`ve noticed that Marty is doing this too, more and more. His efforts have spawned two new blogs, one that caters to those who are intensely loyal to LRH, and another that continues to document the abuses of the corporate Church. I have noticed that those who intensely favor the environment or viewpoint of those two blogs frequent Marty`s blog less and less.
Frankly, I don`t see any people slavishly following Geir`s opinions on this blog at all. And I have never seen a blog owner take as much criticism on his own blog as much as Geir has!
What I see is that Geir has a finely honed ability to extract what I would call critical or tipping points out of blog discussions that are sometimes as much as a 1,000 posts long, framing them in a way that spurs greater discussion along many different lines of thought.
Maria, I agree with what you noticed. Having new posts like Isene is doing, is nice. I too, at times couldn’t understand the heavy personal criticism he has taken. I don’t believe any other owner would let it continue so long but it’s his blog and he knows what he’s doing. Others just don’t know how to answer, handle or allow, quite like he does.
Ok Isene, where my buck!
deE: Ok Isene, where my buck!
Chris: At least $5!
Chris: Chris: At least $5!
Thanks Chris for the raise, coffee on me!
Maria: And I have never seen a blog owner take as much criticism on his own blog as much as Geir has!
Chris: +1 No doubt here. To stick out one’s neck and to be vulnerable and to allow all manner of opinions including a modicum of abuse without answering with censor is to demonstrate a very high ability and showing an above normal tolerance and care for one’s fellows. Not the lip service given by the codes of Scientology but in fact.
Yes, Alanzo is COMPLETELY NEW and IMPROVED!
Thanks for noticing, Profant!
By the way, where’s Valkov?
I’m feeling a lack of havingness lately.
Alanzo
Alanzo
“Alanzo is COMPLETELY NEW and IMPROVED”
Me: I liked the “old” one too…how about you?
Al, I’ve been wondering about Valkov too. He hasn’t been posting on Marty’s blog either. Why don’t you write him an email and send it via Geir? You are nominated since he’s your “better half” here on the blog. 🙂
Alanzo : I’m feeling a lack of havingness lately.
((Big Hug)) or just some kind words or a smilie 🙂
Alanzo : I’m feeling a lack of havingness lately.
deE: ((Big Hug)) or just some kind words or a smilie 🙂
Chris: Truth be told, it has been Alanzo’s perpetually good humored and persistent shoulder to the wheel which has tipped the lever to bring about these shift in viewpoints. By sincerely taking up each writer’s questions, arguments, and personal attacks and criticism and responding with real answers to sometimes real questions but many times just outrageous attacks he has won the day. I have seen a little of this in a lot of us, but Alanzo shines above the rest for persistence and real communication. I don’t want to insult him with calling it ARC but there I already did so there it is.
Chris: Re Alanzo: By sincerely taking up each writer’s questions, arguments, and personal attacks and criticism and responding with real answers to sometimes real questions but many times just outrageous attacks he has won the day.
I agree, he does it amazingly well.
Integration™
“Integration”. + 1
I think people are working through whatever they have to work through to get to a position they are happy with.
I could write at length about all sorts of complex observation I made in my short time here so far, but I do think it’s as simple as that. With one extra note: people need a forum to communicate in, none of us talk into a vaccum. This blog is such a forum.
Dreams don’t vanish… they become a loss if not achieved, huge ARCB’x! Which can be confronted and many who audits doing just that !
Nothing stop anyone but self and that happens when one is influenced the negative way by those who they look up to because they believe these people know better because their intellect and experience and therefore have the answers.
There is more than one way one can take dreams away from people….
And DM is not the only one who is doing that but anyone who say that something is not working urges others to give it up, points out with sound intellectual argument that the dream is not attainable and look someplace else, but they don’t give solutions, they don’t give answers.. and not once tell those who are now lost without their dream that you never have lost it, it is still there but it is on the different path and that path is still yours…and that path is now outside of the church: and the tech is on this path so are the auditors!
Why not write: go back in time when you felt good about your choice, you felt it was the right choice, and you have known that because you were willing to give anything and do anything to attain that goal…and from that point sort out what were those stops eliminate them and move on…
Those who have influence are not taking the positive attitude, yes and I do believe in suppressive influence, it is when one do not offer equal or better solution to the problem but relentlessly point out the negative side.
Elizabeth Hamre 2013-03-28 at 19:47: “Why not write: go back in time when you felt good about your choice, you felt it was the right choice, and you have known that because you were willing to give anything and do anything to attain that goal…and from that point sort out what were those stops eliminate them and move on…”
I would like to add that, in this blog, so far, Geir has presented a faulty biased sampling (*1) analysis of the results gotten by Scientology because he did not presented a good cluster sampling (*2).
Missing clusters:
◦ Scn delivered outside the Co$ who are getting good results. E.g: David St Lawrence, Dror Center, Life Improvement Center (Les and Anita Warren), etc.
◦ Ron’s Org (I don’t have enough info about them, but Robert Dam (*3) has firsthand info).
◦ People who have never been influenced by the Co$, and have experienced Scn by the above.
(*1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_(statistics)
(*2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_sampling
(*3) http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/CBR%20and%20Rons%20Org.html
(*3) http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/Rons%20Org%20and%20PDC.html
+1 Elizabeth and +1 Ferenc
@Geir: Ferenc’s post did not have an email notification of it, and it was just by chance I happened to see his name on the list of recent comments. When you release the posts that are held in moderation because of links in them, could you also make sure the email notification goes out?
Marildiv, WordPress doesn’t give to the moderator the option of e-mail notification.
Okay, Ferenc. In that case, I think Geir should post some kind of reply to the post he is releasing, as when he does it sends out an email notification and permits us to see a portion of the post he is replying to and realize that we had not seen it up until then. Even if he only indicated in the reply something like, “Above post released from moderation due to having internet links in it.”
Thanks for the data, Mr. Systems Analyst and Technical Smarty. 😉
I will try to remember to add a reply to auto-moderated posts (those with links or those that inadvertently ends up in the spam filter.
Thanks. 🙂
Ferikem, I am pleased to share reality with you.. By the way I do have reality on the major shifting, why IS, what is the reason for IS.
Over the years Millions went into the Church of Scientology because from the first moment on when they were told or read about it THEY HAD A GUT FEELING.. that it worked, this was it that they have finally have found what they were looking for knowingly or unconsciously and all of you disregard that first knowingness, that instinct, which is always the right one.
And that instinct-knowingness is the ability every spiritual being has.. knowing the right from wrong….
That what all these millions believed in is still there….exist.. Oh yes.. very much so… exist…
GUT FEELING….yes. That’s the closest to our core nature. When one dares to speak out from that place…not listening to thoughts and beliefs…well…
MT… dont mix up when gas moving in the gut with cognitions.. it is not the same.. when gas moves one should go to the bath room, and when invisible but much more effective energy is shifting one should do different…
Elizabeth: “. . .when gas moves one should go to the bath room.”
Chris: What? And have all my hard won ideas go out through the exhaust fan? No way.
LOL….. Hehehe.. oooh.. You finally recognised what exceptional value one’s believes have…. which we keep so close to our heart or 10-12 inches lower?
Geir…it’s time to move on…Your set of cultural values (general culture, high-tech, sports, literature, etc) is huge! Let Scientology to be a subject of the past, not an obsession. Big hug! Dragos
😉
Dragos72: :clap: :clap:
So, 4000 different people have read through this blog and only about 30 people express themselves? Come on people…I mean it is OK if you just want to be an observer, but if you are scarred of the Church or something…God! 😛
darling boy… not every body had good wins on the communication course! by the time I have finished with full OT7 I have re-done the course 7 times and each time had huge wins… how is you?
„A shift in viewpoint“…
I think it is because when you view from many different angles, from your own and from others point of view, without restricting yourself, the shift can occur. I like the different viewpoints (even when I don’t share them, or oppose them). Somehow it gives me space, I can get my anchor points out, it’s kind of freedom (only with the very stubborn black and white thinking I have sometimes difficulties – it’s a solidness).
I was making up my mind, putting data “pending” (for later evaluation) and changing it – it’s a process (already before I came to this blog). Sometimes I have enough, and sometimes it is interesting me again. It’s an evolution, a work in progress, a sorting out, a making up one’s mind (the opposite from stern and stuck – its flowing, not ridges). So I can imagine that some people could get the notion, that if they change their mind, it would mean they have been “wrong” before (or are “wrong” now).
Not of the mark at all! I see it positively. Free to communicate and share the thoughts, free to argue, free to change your opinion, free to change your mind, free to shift… . Great!!
I have a pending box too!
I like what you said here and I love the process: Free to communicate and share the thoughts, free to argue, free to change your opinion, free to change your mind, free to shift… . Great!!
Yeah, there is no ‘before’. There is ‘now’. If you dont make others and yourself wrong and guilty for the ‘before’, you gain great freedom in the now. 🙂
right you are, since it is now, I am reading all post not on the 28th but on april 4th so it is now.. the dates have no meanings what so ever…
KA
“it’s flowing, not ridges” YES.
The answer is truth has created the tipping point.
Truth is the universal solvent and its washing away the BS…..under all the BS we’ve seen and experienced lies the buck named truth. The tipping point now for Co$ has thetoothpaste out of the tube.
Right gaeaglefan1023. The earth is no longer flat!
Right on deE!
I’d love to know what DM is thinking about the current state of Co$….On second thought, cancel that idea. I don’t want want to know.
Alanzo may soon need a new dragon to slay.
The value of human life and telling what’s on one’s mind before it’s too late.
The real value is the person, the spirit. The mover…..Whatever a person is doing in life has a precious value…..there are no bigger or smaller values…..whatever a person is doing or
saying in a given moment of life is exactly that which fits that moment the best, as well as it is the best in the broad picture of life even if one or others are not fully conscious of it.
🙂 I imagine it will be peaceful if we acknowledge and honor this value in each other. Not a sort of ‘I am more valueable than you’ nor ‘we are all equally valueable’ but more like ‘we are all infinitely valueble’.
I see spirituality and philosophy as something like ‘we lost our keys and we have split up individualy to find them’. How nonsensical it is to have conflicts between potential keyfinders. I see religion as more like ‘We have the keys and we only give them to our disciples and the rest will never find them’.
Buddhism may be an exception, I don’t know. But religion has a tradition in limiting the potential of others to find the keys.
In my experience, spirituality, philosophy and religion as closed systems lose their meanings in the instant the person wakes up to true nature…as in Geir’s post, the Hunch and the key…did you read that? If you didn’t, look it up. It was last summer.
Yes, when you find the key that you never lost, you no longer need that stuff 😛
Thanks, I’m going to look it up.
“When you find the key that you never lost, you no longer need that stuff”. Beautifully said! The key word in it is NEED. When it gets out of the picture, exploration starts….as in the name of the blog. “Explorer of free will”. Where is Geir? Probably out on some exciting exploration….hope he will come here too. I have learnt lots of things from him. Even more from my blogger friends here. Isn’t it exciting? An absolutely free environment with so many points of views from all over the world!
Marianne: An absolutely free environment with so many points of views from all over the world!
Chris: Yes, it is very luxurious. A smorgasbord of valid thinking.
Chris wrote:
Yes, it is very luxurious. A smorgasbord of valid thinking.
I have found possibly the best message board on the planet.
http://www.quora.com
Alanzo
Thanks Alanzo. I signed up and was immediately overwhelmed by the orders of magnitude. So much information — I will look around as I can. Any suggestions in particular?
Chris: Thanks Alanzo. I signed up and was immediately overwhelmed by the orders of magnitude. So much information — I will look around as I can. Any suggestions in particular?
Ditto 🙂
Thanks Alanzo. I signed up.
Chris:
Here:
https://www.quora.com/Philosophy/What-are-the-top-10-philosophical-ideas-that-everyone-should-understand
Alanzo
Those are Great Alanzo. Working my way through them.
Yes, I see it more like I process my creations, not myself. I can say that I process myself when I consider myself to be part of my creations.
It isn’t that I think of myself as being ‘superior’ to being processed. On the contrary I think of my basic self as not-a-thing. So then what is there to process? I can run a ridge or something but what’s the point in running nothing?
There is no ‘becoming free’ or becoming good or able or this or that. There is stop creating that you are this or that, and so be whatever the *beep* you want to be.
if all would have equal value than there would be NO game! not as you know it here!
Yes. Also, the ” I ” and “you” are illusions. The are no separate entities like that. Only because of the existence of bodies looks like that. Yes, there is an infinity of viewpoints which are equally valuable….they are just different. And there is a continuous learning-experience of the creativity of Life….did you notice that nothing is fixed? There is nothing to hold onto….
there is no value Marianne outside what you believe that something has value. look at the weeds the flowers not one of them believe in such a garbage that you are better you are valuable because you are a rose and I am a lowlife because I am weed a dandelion only!
value, having value or totaly useless- without any is a human belief-consideration.
Yeah, I agree. I only disagree with the idea I have fallen onto in some spiritualities that we (spirits) are all one. I say we are all everything –the whole thing. I don’t see life as a big spirit or something but rather as the potential for spirits and stuff to exist.
Yes, one source of infinite potentials, possibilities….Geir has been communicating loads of truth during the past year since I started visiting his blog…go back, check some posts if you haven’t done it yet….and this is a fact. I have already told him to do that too…go back and see what he has posted….loads of valuable comments….
MT… Could you define -explain what is Truth?
Elizabeth
“Could you define-explain what is Truth?”
One definition is Geir, his viewpoints, his communication. Also, each of us here. WE ARE TRUTH.
good load.. it can be spread evenly do include mine! truth???
when you are here, there is more humour…love it, Elizabeth!
MT….. going into agreement DO NOT MEANS that is truth! it simply means agree!!!
E …..I don’t see anything which is not included in truth….when I agree, truth has just taken up the form of an agreement…as long as I am aware of it, it’s fine….yes, I just see it…even if I am not aware of it, it is fine anyway….
MT…. if you would be Truth you would not be here,
Yes I agree. That’s why I like to read and participate. I like Marty’s too, because although he is pro-SCN he is not afraid to examine things –well, so I have seen. He thinks SCN is the best without reducig others. Why not? I would support anything that I would consider to be best, even if that was called voodoo. The problem is only when one becomes intolerant of other viewpoints. He limits himself then.
Psychologist comes along and after briefly observing you, points out that you have a ‘problem’ (some invalidative remark). We know that psychologists are bad and wrong so we don’t bother with that. We know that what they do is wrong, and probably suppressive. But when you go to somebody -as SCNist- and after briefly observing him you point out that this and that is wrong with him, you do the right thing. You do it to help him. You say you are keyd in, or you are low on the tone scale, or you are down stat and that is a good thing to do. From that point on, you have helped him realise that he is worse that he had thought –what a relief. Now, if after you have done that, if you don’t also help him all the way to as-is ALL that charge, and you just leave him like that, I would like to help you too by pointing out that you probably dramatise some suppressive valence, mate. You can thank me with a check, because I do it to help you. Thank you.
Oops I posted this under the wrong topic, sorry.
I found something and brought it back to the cave.
Mahamudra
http://www.mahamudracenter.org/MMCMemberMeditationGuide.htm#_Toc420995703
Alanzo
Alanzo
Thank you! I have read it through. I missed your comments. I am putting here something too if anyone is interested.
Or rather, just its name. Adyashanti: True meditation. (it’s no method, no technique, we can even take away the word meditation…and we get…..).
MT.. with meditation what you get is a dead end…
if it would not be so than there would not be so many scientologist who in their past life recall have been in mode of meditation+ have been monks in many different life times.
Guy I cant take this shit any more!…. my life is in shables,……. I am totally overwhelmed,…….. I cant bear it any longer,…… I have to get away from it all, ………I need change because my life is shit, I walk in shit, every one is full of shit and if i dont do somethhing I do need to end my life because it is so fucked up……something got to give or I have to give up or give in, something has to change or I go mad,
And few hundred more reason people go into meditation, they do it to get away from the stimulation, the weight of reality they have and no longer cant confront and with meditation they simply key out of that mass and move into different mass, but the energy is still there they are still in the MEST universe..
in fact nothing has changed but view points… So Marianne, I my reality meditation is just a trap.. and nothing more… So dont push Meditation… do it your self if you must, if it is on your path as a learning experience.. but meditation leads to the outhouse..
Elizabeth –
There is no “mass” in the mind. Hubbard’s views on Buddhism are mostly false and it is clear that he misunderstood huge fundamental swaths of it. Almost every Scientologist adopts these same misunderstandings and never realize it.
It’s too bad.
Alanzo
Alanzo.. I have no idea what LRH or scientologist think what is or what was on their mind.. and I do not speak from what I have learned by reading or head from others, I speak from experience.
Gues what: I do not consider my self as scientologist, not for one second,
A… there is no mind or mass on it… that is a matter of speaking..
A… you have no reality on me, how I think or see.. what IS…. what ever you write that is your interpretation of how you see the universe around you.. but that is just that your interpretation.. but that is not what is there.. what you see, how you see any ”weed”” how you think about it is yours alone.. even the weed dont give a hoot… my weeds react the same way…. no reaction what so ever…
Alanzo old pussy cat, here is something for you to figure out: If one don’t have formal education,[ 8 grades] if one don’t have memory =means can’t learn from books, can’t retain information but some partial information is retained but nothing with numbers or technical stuff, can recall recipe, song, poem.
Now Alanzo I am this person, but what I know is phenomenal and none of it is read-learned and remembered: by reading.. since I am a loner, I live alone, I do not mix with groups.
PS, I had 8hours worth of IQ test at University of Washington, The IQ was so high that numbers were not given… Professor said ‘’occasionally this thing happens to person when their IQ cannot be measured because it went through the roof”. Yet the outcome of 2+2= could be anything in my universe… why I tell you this? Simply don’t compare me to any one you know since I am not anyone who you know.
Elizabeth
I love music of different kind. This one has come up first after reading your post. I have already put it here with lyrics, now I repeat it without it. I love it, do you too?
Elizabeth
I have loved life since I was born – NOW I know that it was always so, even when it didn’t look to be the case!
I have never pushed meditation – I have put here TRUE meditation, IF anyone is interested.
If you care to listen into the 3 CD-s, you will see why the word TRUE is there.
I did auditing – I won’t repeat myself. I loved it -flying all through! Anyone into it – go ahead!
I am not doing anything at present. When I post, I speak from experience. I don’t use words
many scientologists…people. Also, I don’t speak for others as to ‘get away from, shit etc’ what you write.
Thanks for what you write – it’s all CARE, I see that! You KNOW, Elizabeth, there’s no doubt in me about it. That’s YOUR way, at least up to now….
MT.. sorry to say but I dont Care… not one bit… care is a interesting concept.. care: why? how care helps any one on the path which is empty? 🙂
HaHa…that emptiness is not so empty…I finally start to see it….Care is definitely one quality of Life-potential….
M T.. small info…. interestingly my dear; I wanted to know it all and now I Know, finding it out that there is no value in knowing…. the power has shifted from Knowing into totally different reality.
Elizabeth
‘ I wanted to know it all and now I Know, finding out it out that there is no value in knowing…’
HaHa… I have never heard you saying it THIS way!
‘the power has shifted from Knowing into totally different reality’…..will you put it into words what that reality is?
Thanks Alanzo. That’s an excellent summary and resource!
Geir
Another major shift is happening or has happened. Am I right? If so, will you write about it?
Stay tuned.