On timelessness and death

I have found this quote by Ludwig Wittgenstein intriguing:

Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.

64 thoughts on “On timelessness and death

      1. very nice, but that is nothing new since time do not exist in the first place. These man just discovered- realized that fact for him self.
        He has not introduced that reality to this planet, these were many who have known that.. If you would lived hundred years back in a farm someplace where clock were not known you would notice that years, time were not factors..

          1. Ok… the farmers were not rich and famous therefore their knowledge, their wisdom was not recorded on paper, or they were not heard in society living rooms and collected WOW’s with that agreements but their wisdom was handed down from generation to generation….
            The farmers or people in general they did not needed solid logical and mathematical foundations THEY JUST SIMPLY KNEW!

            1. Oh you want proof.. solid evidence, something written stamped agreed on “that is the truth nothing but the truth so help me god!
              The truth do not require evidence and those who realise that is the truth dont require one either.

            2. I am saying WE wouldn’t be communicating here were it not for mathematics. The Internet wouldn’t be without it, etc

            3. Oh.. thank you.. you right on that. to bad for us.. we have lost our abilities because of these wonderful inventions.. of course this reality will not make me to break into song and dance..

  1. Intriguing is a good word and I like what he says. I’m still working on the last line which I haven’t got completely yet.

  2. Perhaps it is time we actually consider living for body death. Instead of just a painful or remorseful end this may be rather like studying for an end of term exam in school. Those who study hard enough to pass graduate and gain permission to advance to the next course. Those who think the course is only for skipping out and having a toke will continually flunk the grade and have to repeat.

    There’s nothing to say that you can’t have some fun on the course; maybe even go out and stare at the stars and let your visual field enjoy their limited limitlessness. But in the end, if all you want to do is play house and dolls and toy cars, you’re going to keep flunking out and wondering wtf is wrong with life.

    It’ll take a bit more than a summer course in Fuckitology or So What to make it through the grade. While both courses may have a certain appeal and usefulness, there is a course in Willingness to Experience Anything that is on the curriculum, and while it is a total bitch of a course with multiple levels of horror, it is willing and studied attempts at this course that will get you to the next grade. Even when you fail.

      1. ‘What would you say commences after the said exam?’

        how about this:

        writing a new curriculum
        living life with a big smile and a fresh, anew mind
        using the wisdoms learnt to orientate the young and those
        in need of it who are also asking for it
        relying on the inherent talent and creativity of kids

        can you go on with the list?

        1. Hi Marianne.. I believe he meant the future existence in the Cosmos.
          If one do not confront… clear away the aberration by erasing it by confront and gain better-different viewpoints -understanding[ cognitions] of self and the universe in general IF that will not be done the self would not gain better attitude since ”fuck-it” and ”so what” will not give what is needed to better ones future, which includes future in existence as a spiritual Entity.

          1. You still do not get the point about the “so what?” – attitude. As Chris said, it is the only thing that works as it is detachment from any unwanted condition. Any ear, any resisting of conditions will do you the opposite ; entrap you.

            1. I stick to erasing the unwanted… and chris and you do your thing since you never gotten or chris eather the meaning of what auditing technology can do when it is used. so to me it is pure undiluted crap whay you and your friends believe in but that is your reality and chrises reality of confrontation and eraser. so we know where all 3 of us stand on this issue do forgive that I dont sugar coat my comment to you.. since I dont think that would help you to understand the meaning of the ”eraser”..

            2. I do understand what you believe but i I dont believe it works on the long run.. I am only a fanatic solo auditor so what do I know of such new technology you have created and its is this ”so what” and ” fuck-it” is the magic wand which erases the eons of accumulated considerations. well good luck to you and your followers..

            3. Point is ; every method – auditing, meditation, prayer, etc is merely a visa2 to help the person to let go. That’s all.

            4. if that is your reality than it is you who did not understood the meaning of what is the difference between of the two concept “Letting go”= but still existing or ”total elimination”=no longer exists..

            5. No mam, you see – letting go means no longer creating it, hence it doesn’t exist. Like letting go of a fear or remorse or anger or repulsion, etc

            6. we are not in the same reality level that is all. what has been created postulated into existence still there and will be there for ever. I will not debate this issues because it is pointless for both of us.

            7. The only reason it exists is because you continue to create it. If you stopped createing it, it would stop existing.

            8. You do realize that “letting go” is the exact essence of the Clear Cognition? Whatever one does up to Clear is culminating in the PC no longer continually creating the Reactive Mind. Never mind that I do not believe in the concept of the Reactive Mind – but the point still holds – that anything unwanted that exists in you is because you continue to create it in every instance. So, when you stop creating it, it ceases to exist. Whatever you do to accomplish that is simply a via – like “confronting”, seeing every detail (date/location of first creation, etc), e-meter, processes, meditation, logic, calculations, intuition, etc. It all leads up to simply letting it go, going “so what?” or if you prefer the more aggressive take; “Fuck it”.

            9. I do understand, but to those who have not received auditing, or very small amount of, for them it do not work..
              I wonder if you realize that there are many of your readers looking up to you as on OT because in their reality you have attained some incredible level, I know that level is wrapped into myth -mystery, lots of hocus-pocus but still that mystery is there. And these folks believe that all the OT’s have achieved, gained incredible power but as CL12 auditor and C/S who is doing what I do continues to confront the daily incoming thoughts, considerations and ”the every day happenings” he said and I totally agree since I know his reality and I been solo auditing longer than any one on this planet that those have just done the OT levels and some additional other auditing but not continuing with solo auditing on their own they are in worst shape than on before because now they are Fully HIT and feel what ever comes into their life daily.. And these OT’s have become the NEW GODS because they believe they KNOW and they now advise people who believe in them and their advice is totally miss-leading, in most cases a total piece of shit.. as in you case here.
              You will never take that into you future life and the SO WHAT WILL NOT WORK WHEN LARGE LOSSES< DEATH EXPERIENCES will hit you or yours :which will stimulate huge amount of emotions will push that FUCK -It attitude aside.
              How about a head on collision like the one I have had?
              When I lost memory I could hardly walk, passed out regularly, I could not understand what people were talking about, and I could not read ? What if the same would happen to you or one of your sons? How fuck it would bring back the knowledge when you only would feel pain, nothing but pain 24 hour of screaming pain.?
              So Geir… dont try to convince me that it works, I will never agree to it.
              And in this case the knowledge I have about the MEST Universe, how it woks, how its effects those who view this illusions but totally believe that it is real I have reality on and you dont.. You only opened the door and seen only a tiny-tiny amount of the possibilities what could be and what is the Spiritual universe.
              Evaluation this is, yes, because you have made a post and insist that SO WHAT, and FUCK IT Is the way out!!!!
              Really bad form and hugely bad example you are putting out..
              You are not use to that some one is not wriggling adoringly front of you in the dust like most readers here too.. and you are not used to be told that you are wrong and to you that is unacceptable.. Well mate, you are smart when comes to calculators etc.. but on some other matters hehehe.. not doing to well. so stick to calculators, I dont like giving advise but you need this one or get going and get some auditing in order to have clearer realities what you talking about.

            10. BY AGREEING TO SOMTHING LIKE YOUR REALITY ON THIS MATTER WOULD MEAN THAT AUDITING DONT WORK AND CONFRONTING DONT WORK AND BY THAT IT WOULD MEAN DO NOT ERASED THE CONFRONTED ITEM! and I very much believe in confrontation, in auditing and I KNOW IT WOKS therefore I dont need vies to key out of shit. Auditing din not work for you regardless what you have written about it because if it would have you would not PUSH CRAP LIKE THAT AS Workable FORMULA and most of all not on me.

            11. Geir;…”You do realize that “letting go” is the exact essence of the Clear Cognition? ”
              Elizabeth: that cognition is a only a tiny glimpse to what is there, what one needs to face=confront in order to be free of the beliefs one has.
              Have you looked into the PRIVATE Group David ST L. has what those solo auditors doing?
              I have not seen your name on the list so I already know the answer to my question.

              Those who read his blog or mine and few other persons who are continuing with solo auditing we do know that all the auditing which includes the OT levels and the L’s are just the very basic understanding what is there needed to be handled in order to be free of all beliefs -agreements which holds one in the grip of wrong reality which is solidity, and a prison it self.

              Long as one has one belief[ thought] left out of millions which one so happily acquired over the ions that ONE BELIEF IS ENOUGH TO HOLD THAT PERSON, KEEP THAT PERSON ATACHED TO THE MEST UNIVERSE AND KEEP THAT PERSON BELIEVE THAT HE/SHE IS THAT mass of energy: being totally one with it.

              You haven’t got a clue how the energy-mass can control the Entity; EXAMPLE : SEX its mass holds the practitioner in it grip, that mass of energy has incredible power over the person because the person believes that it is pleasure, the greatest pleasure what it can be experienced and there is nothing more in the Universe better than that experience. [I have given up sex 18 back, so I dont have sex life, and I also solo audited few hundred hours WHAT IS SEX means, so I am clear on the matter so are those Entities who were in session with me and were released by the same cognitions from that addictive belief.]]

              Well if sex would be the greatest of al pleasure moments, if that would be true than it would not be a solid experience because TRUTH IS SELF IS NOT a TENGIBLE EXPERIENCE, the truth has no mass because hold no energy. Interestingly which you haven’t realised yet, what ever one continually needs, wants, must have is on addiction…

              Pleasure moments are the most addictive of all aberrated believes and they do control the believer.
              Clear, attesting to clear is not even the glimpse what work need to be done in order to be real Clear, ask those who are continuing with solo auditing, 2ndx is one of them Mark R is in the group and ask David ST L.
              I am not asking here to start to believe in what I have been saying since you haven so far if you would have you would not insisted over and over that I am the one who do not get the meaning of Fuck-it or So What and endorse that totally useless concept by agreement…

            12. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

              You seem to think that auditing is The Only Way. Not surprising that you so vehemently defend it as such, given your personal investment in it. And personal huge investments can make for blinders, confirmation bias, defensiveness or even outrage when challenged.

              I happen to believe there are many true paths. Many different ways to many different goals. And I do believe that each and every one has his or her responsibility of defining own goals and discovering his or her right paths. The modus operandi of Hubbard was that there is ONE GOAL and only ONE VALID PATH. Such arrogance is staggering but understandable as people around Hubbard helped reinforce his ego by being sycophants. That people nowadays keep clinging to that extremist view is more puzzling as there are so many more views and methods developed and readily available in this modern age. … a modern age Hubbard completely failed to envision – even given his recall of all past civilizations…

            13. Yes I have experienced all : everything you have written and a few more you are not aware of so I am totally OK how you believe where I am at. Geir” I happen to believe there are many true paths. Many different ways to many different goals.” that is true but you have forgotten to mention to what the person achieve when walking the paths you are aware of. Hubbards belief is a wrong horse to ride an and I never admired his teachings or walked his path since I have only taken a very small portion what I have found workable for me and I have paid for that too and that was way back in the 70’s and even than I could not walk his path because that was not my reality. Why not look into and inquire how auditing works to those who apply very similar tech. as I have… If I would be the only SOLO AUDITOR ON THIS PLANET than I would believe that I am on the wrong path… we are in the thousands… so suit your self. I am really 🙂 totally fine what you read into my writing…. that will remain your reality and part of your creation and no man again will have the influence to put me down make me believe in different tell me whatever they think I am and your reality of me will not influence the Universe I am at or in.

            14. I am Not Saying that you are on the wrong path. You may very well be on the right path For You. And I think there are plenty of path that ends in the person stopping to create the shit he experiences.

            15. Geir… again if you would have invested more of your ”time” with solo auditing and in the session and would have taken EVERY ONE OF THE AVAILABLE PATHS KNOWN TO MAN ; the concepts and results of these teachings than you would be finding out for self that those PATHS ARE TRAPS and they do not lead out of the MEST Universe. Since I am not the only one who believes in the auditing technology because for that you need to investigate why others believe in it and why they continue! Max Hauri’s large group, The Italian group, Davis’s group, the Canadian groups since there is more than one, the African group, the Indies who solo and study alone and those individual who continue on their own who uses LRH’s auditing technology and there are many field auditors who deliver to individual who do not belong to groups… You might form different reality how and why the LRH’S Tech works. Amen.

            16. Elizabeth Hamre: “… EVERY ONE OF THE AVAILABLE PATHS KNOWN TO MAN ; the concepts and results of these teachings than (sic) you would be finding out for self that those PATHS ARE TRAPS…”

              ‘Nuff said.

              Such extremist views are precisely why there are wars in this world and why people and groups refuse to coexist. Palestine being just a recent example of two groups knowing they have The One True Path to salvation. I find such views dangerous to say the least.

            17. But I am not teaching my beliefs, not pushing it on any one, and I always SAY :MY REALITY! and they will remain mine alone! ”Nuff said”.. is control bit.. but that to is my reality! good night!

            18. you are tooo funny… you believe that my reality will affect millions and cause religious war and Attila will ride again? my bony ass could not survive sitting on the horse and not much muscles left in the 74 year old arms to pull the bow sting. hehehe..
              but the main thingy is that all evil-ness, all need to fight or win, to be the first or better all these what ever they were, their meanings the believe that they are real that the universe is like that is all gone.
              Rest assured that the power I have acquired is not for the use of evil. Those who believe what ever they believe in doing they own harm to self and they dont need outside influence for that.

            19. I don’t think for a minute that your views will revert others to the same extremist stance. I simply gave my own opinion of such extremist views in general.

            20. By stepping out of human BELIEFS : this planets realities that can give one very verb different viewpoints so those who dont want to have different or cant confront different realities definitely should stay within in the boundaries of their present time beliefs. and definitely auditing is not recommended.

            21. Dear Geir Isene.. you would be greatly surprised just how many Entities have the exact same view point reality. and yours also, but you could find out and get some understanding if you would read David St. latest posts on what BT’s Clusters Are and how they behave and why, and how they respond in sessions and how Cognitions affects them… Eye opener his posts are, but I have written about the same in my Blog few years back before he started his Spiritual Research Tech. But we can have another debate on this subject.. 🙂 I know you have done OT 8, but Davids and my post are different realities from what LRH has written about Entities. His beliefs were not very flattering, not very complementary and definitely the reality. So there is something need to be read.. learned by all you OTs

            22. I like your reality it resonates with mine on the subject, yet I have I have continued and found tremendous amount of traps and I have taken total responsibility for what I see, understand and realize.

            23. as you know each person who have entered into the church and proceeded to fallow the courses and auditing levels these persons were on very different level of understanding, comprehending-duplicating the material and they only did accordingly to their reality it seems some when attained OT 7 OT 8 still could not think for self and continue to use the material which brought some changes into their life earlier and they were not willing to admit that something was wrong, missing and there were much mire which needed to be handled-confronted. They were satisfied with the number-title the myth the meaning of”OT” was providing. So lets not knock the auditing technology, and take a bit closer look for other reason why some of the so CALLED OT”S committed suicide.. gotten ill etc..etc.. become alcoholics drug addicts etc.. etc.. those are all items which can be handled and the same or similar item were handled for others with winning results =eraser of the symptoms. So dear Geir, lets finally place the blame where it belongs. And stupidity is on item, so is ignorance, and so iss” its not working” ”I dont believe in it”’ ” did not help me” ”useless shit” ”it sucks” ”it is a lie” etc..etc.. etc.. THEY DID IT TO ME… THEY ARE HYPNOTISERS etc..etc..etc.. these are wonderful items and every one can be confronted and taken earlier similar to F/N… VGI’s Every excuse under the sun on this planet has its origin some other place some other time. But, the Fuck-it attitude was used and the results=BLAME. my reality.:)

            24. 🙂 just talked to the Prime Minister, but he said the War has to wait the bit because [the silly man] the Canadians are all occupied having peace.. and he added, that here in Canada we have every religious group and believes presented and he dont think to kill each other off to the last citizen would work because whom could lose his position him self.

            25. only total confrontation is erasing the energy mass and the rest of what you mention only keys the person out from that mass of energy but DO NOT ELIMINATE IT.

  3. Thanks for this post – it’s prompted me to start reading Wittgenstein’s Tractatus, at long last.

    ‘A life’ might be one more example of a system that can’t be both complete and consistent by itself, and can only be understood in terms of a bigger system that surrounds it. Death would be the boundary, which cannot be seen from the inside.

    1. death is not a boundary [my reality] but when that occurs for the body: stops working since it is a machine and gotten worn out, in that moment the Entity-Spirit- is able to leave and be free and start the real life…
      The Machine body is holding the Entity in captivity and this captivating thing is the mass of energy which the body is and continually create from the food, drinks and other stimulating activities which are also created by use of the body-hands feet, walking. example: every time you put your foot down you experience that energy-felling, with your hands you do the same, even having a pee causes sensation to turn on and be experienced.
      Death is not a boundary but the beginning of different experiences which have nothing to do with the body but now the Entity can enjoy the freedom of 360 degree view, to have total experience of anything the entity desires to put attention on.

      1. It is a boundary if you look at it from the viewpoint of Set Theory. Or, as seen from Category Theory, Life represents one category – and it would be interesting to see maps from that category to a next life (being another category)

  4. Time is only surpassed in its inconceivability by space. And from my view, these two seem inseparable. In the information age, real-time is a term which indicates a reaction speed which is very close to instantaneous. And yet, when we look closely, we seem to live in a time-set which is very much in the past. For me, this line of thought asks, “Where exactly is present time?” Heisenberg’s Uncertainty shows us (I think) that we can’t quite know.

  5. Where is exactly the present time,????/ again in my reality which is born out of experience ”time” and ”now” these concept are just that; concept but intangible and only exist in belief therefore: none existing.

    1. Geir, knowing a bit about how you think, I imagine you would prefer the viewpoint of Timothy Ogden over Peter Diamond’s. Ogden wrote a review of Diamondis’ book *Abundance* (co-authored by Steven Kotler). Here’s an excerpt of the review:

      *Abundance* is meant to be an optimistic antidote to the world’s doomsayers, but it left me deeply depressed. If bright and innovative minds are still completely captured by technological fixes to social problems, we have much further to go in solving those problems than I believed.

      “After throwing *Abundance* across the room, I found Philip Auerswald’s *The Coming Prosperity* a breath of fresh air. Auerswald’s focus is on human beings and the way they solve problems. Technology matters only insofar as it enables the people solving their own problems to outpace the people creating them.

      “…The world’s entrepreneurs are now numerous enough, free enough, and, yes, have access to sufficient technology, to innovate and succeed in spite of the powers that be. Auerswald writes not to convince the powerful and influential at the top of the pyramid to change as much as to inform them that they are no longer relevant—and that’s good news for everyone.”

      http://www.ssireview.org/book_reviews/entry/techno_optimists_beware

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