As a Scientologist starts to wake up to the reality that the Church of Scientology is a real world Truman Show, other Scientologists will warn him that he will be doomed as he turns his back to the One True Path.
As an independent Scientologist starts to wake up to the reality that Scientology cannot deliver on its promises, other independents will tell him how dark his future will be as he turns away from The Truth.
I have heard warnings like “you will get cancer and die”, “your eternity will be lost” and “you will die alone in the dark”. And all because Scientology is the only salvation for Mankind, the only real hope in the whole wide universe since the dawn of time. And this is precisely why you will become lost and depressed and have your life wrecked.
And for some, this prophecy will come true. Many Scientologists do experience their world falling apart when they leave their church. Many independent Scientologists do feel depressed as they start to doubt their beliefs in Scientology. Lives do get wrecked. But is it because they turn away from the truth?
No.
And here is why: Scientologists experience the same withdrawal symptoms as people departing from other cults. Be it the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Moonies (Unification Church), Mormonism, Nation of Islam, KKK, Raëlians or any other strong belief system. Similar warnings are issued and similar experiences are recounted. Each one could conclude that the reason a former member is having a hard time after leaving their faith is because they have deviated from the Only True Path – or gone “off-purpose” as Scientologists would say.
So if it isn’t the turning away from truth that does the damage, what is it? It’s the loss of hope, of purpose. Even if the hope was false and the purpose was fake, unfulfilled or plain crazy.
Something to keep in mind if you harbour a doubt.
Geir Isene - uncut 
If you leave, suppressives will scare you to death 😛
And if you survive the suppressives the critics will pound you to death. 😀
And if you survive the suppressives and the critics, you will suffer in the world out there, that is driven by alarming generalities.
Indeed. We are surrounded by logical fallacy! 😛
Out-ethics and out-tech everywhere…
Exactly – which is why turning to even false certainties can seem so comforting.
I create the problem to offer the security of my solution.
“Exactly – which is why turning to even false certainties can seem so comforting.”
Yes.
Geir would say it’s all good. And we should love the game.
Come to think of it – the wise men of old say the same! 🙂
I have flanctuations…
If you had me on facebook, you’d see how I rant about stuff, and then I blow steam and no longer think so 😛
I should take lessons from you. 🙂
Now that I’m thinking…to communicate something, to ‘send’ it to another or others, is kinda like ‘letting it go’…
I think it’s what LRH called “as-isness” and attributed it to the “magic of the communication cycle,” in a bulletin by that title.
As-isness in communication occurs by duplicates. If one just ‘let’s go’ there is no duplicate.
There’s another principle too. Google: “magic of the communication cycle” hcob. With the quotes.
I read it. But I’m not sure what you’re trying to tell me.
What I meant before, was that the mere idea, the imagination of it departing from you can have such an effect. Besides, all that stuff (case) is imagined, ‘mocked up’ in Scientologese. Some call those things imaginary so as to belittle them. But I know they are, anyway. Scientology is imaginary. But the universe is agreed upon imagination(s) too, according to Scientology.
“As-isness in communication occurs by duplicates. If one just ‘let’s go’ there is no duplicate.”
And that is a more correct understanding of that HCOB, Spyros.
Spyros: “Now that I’m thinking…to communicate something, to ‘send’ it to another or others, is kinda like ‘letting it go’…”
Nice. Haven’t thought of it like that before. Thanks.
“If you leave, suppressives will scare you to death :P”
. . . and you’ll die penniless with a needle stuck in your arm along some lonely road somewhere alone!
If you don’t submit, you’ll never be self-determined.
“If you don’t submit, you’ll never be self-determined.”
Love the humor Spyros!
+1 !
Now I get it! 🙄
Or in a ditch. 😀
Geir: “So if it isn’t the turning away from truth that does the damage, what is it? It’s the loss of hope, of purpose. Even if the hope was false and the purpose was fake, unfulfilled or plain crazy.”
Very true. A stable datum for life – a worldview – keeps everything from being confusing.
Unfortunately, if it’s an invalid worldview, not based on truth, it will cause your world to crumble sooner or later. Unless you pick up from where you left off on the road to truth, and take with you all subsidiary truths that remain and all lessons learn.
Very true. Which is why it is such a high risk game to amass certainties. It is far better to remain open to uncertainty and doubt and to not push for being right but stay anti-fragile and vulnerable.
I think I heard that somewhere before… 🙂
“Unfortunately, if it’s an invalid worldview, not based on truth, it will cause your world to crumble sooner or later. Unless you pick up from where you left off on the road to truth, and take with you all subsidiary truths that remain and all lessons learn.”
Or with effort, a person can hold the frame of reference firm, with luck, until they die. At least there’s an end of it. I have Christian family and friends like this.
G, I think it also sucks to have friends and/or family turn against you/disconnect from you. Which can contribute to the former member’s bad shape.
* I personaly never ‘cared’ that I had lost SCN. Actually, I had easier access to it, than ever. And I was convinced those guys were not SCN.
“And I was convinced those guys were not SCN.”
They weren’t. Unfortunately, many weren’t able to discern that. (sigh)
Well, since we’ve talked about this (is COS and/or the FZ=SCN or not?) before, and I predict some bold disagreements, I don’t want to open that, so as not to depart too much from the OP. My point was, my prob was not SCN itself, since I didn’t feel I had lost it (I was even determined to even go about it by myself) but the attitude of some people. And SCN or not it would be the same, for me. That group agreement vs the ‘bad’, disagreeable individual…it sucks.
Good, Spyros. I’m not interested in repeating the old arguments either. And I totally got your point.
That’s so true about the group agreement. It’s what did us in! And still does – but the lesson is there…
“They weren’t. Unfortunately, many weren’t able to discern that. (sigh)”
Discern Ms. No True Scientologist? 🙂
LOL!
I gotta admit it, you are pretty funny sometimes.
Thank you! 🙂
Of course. There are lots of other factors in life that can impinge like that.
Regardless of the issues of one’s daily life, environment and structure, anyone can be expected to find it daunting, formidable, even terrifying to be without all that constituted life as one knew it. The sudden changes and shifts, in daily routines, in agreements about truth, sense and logic, the loss of people who were one’s support network, the daily schedules, all this can be very unsettling. Add to it, the huge shift in values- one goes from titles of “continental authority” (delusional as that is in a group where one man actually controls everything), to a world that provides no recognition whatsoever in such things. It can be a severe shock, and it can be made to feel and seem far worse than it actually is by all the threats before leaving that “You won’t have a chance in the wog world”, etc, used to try to make members too afraid to leave.
Good post Dexter. Do you have a sense from your considerable experience helping how many of a hundred ex-SO make a successful re-entry into life and how many suffer mightily, maybe even failing?
Chris, I would say for the most part, those I’ve seen have been preoccupied with making a life for themselves, and making the most of their freedom. They tend to be focused on what they need to do now to build and maintain all the common types of survival and security. They are dealing with the disadvantages of having lost the years that would have otherwise been spent building careers, relationships and material success and security, and so they tend to be hustlers and/or entrepeneurs of one kind or another. Some do well, some are treading water, some really struggle. In general, those I’ve known don’t spend much time bemoaning their lots in life, perhaps because one developed trait from their Sea Org days that carries forward is the mindset of “focus on today’s challenges, today’s targets must be met”. But then, those who would have been most devastated would likely suffer a total paradigm crash, and not seek help from a practitioner like me. While I make it very clear that “standard tech” or KSW is not my way, from the perspective of someone who has rejected and totally lost faith in their entire Scientology experience, I might seem more similar than different.
That describes my experience very well. I partitioned off my entire experience away from my daily life for years until I had the time and resources to deal with it. Our friend Aida was a godsend and took me on in spite of her concern that I could possibly be an OSA plant. Her work with me was just what I needed according to my own reality at the time.
Good stuff, Chris 🙂 I have also spent many hours with many clients, helping them to resolve the issues related to their experience with the C of S. I have much love for Aida!
“Something to keep in mind if you harbour a doubt.”
It begins for me by getting a sense of my own limitations and the limitations of others. Not to be a curmudgeon, entirely. It’s been helpful to admit uncertainty about my life and future and prospects. It’s helpful for me to understand that at 62 years of age I’m not going to go into politics, NASA, or win any Nobel or Pulitzer prizes. CERN doesn’t call anymore. Now if it were a goal of mine or if I was brilliant enough to understand the direction of the next chemistry of battery storage had to go, then ok. I’d give it a whirl. Parents tell their kids they can grow up to be anything they want but only few do grow up to be what they wanted. That just doesn’t seem to be the way it works out. It’s better to have a realistic, not negative, just realistic appraisal of what one can be and do and how to take pride in the cleanliness of that toilet one finds themself scrubbing. Just sayin’ that in anyone’s estimation, they could’ve spent a lifetime accruing some of the stuff I’ve got and the loving family I’ve got and the large circle of friends that I’ve got. But I did that AND lived a life I imagined as well including giving all I had to “save the world.” Life is still going on and life is still good. Adventure can be in every breath and that doesn’t mean it has to be free climbing Half Dome (I’m never going to do that). It can be each task and every trip to the store or to the Submarino’s Cafe to get a foot long or a fresh slice. Love and a full life is all around. And we can improve on that. We can eat better, pollute less, and contribute more. I might still do my part to save the world.
“I might still do my part to save the world.”
Lovely sentiment.
When I left Scientology I felt liberated. At last I would be able to concentrate on my musical career, my children, take time to go hiking and climbing, without struggling with impossible schedules and financial catastrophe. Not doing Scientology any more, meant studying the real history of the movement and its founder, discovering what was behind it and understanding that life is all here and now and in Scientology there is no future. It was great to rediscover the pleasures of life without feeling guilty about “production” and priorities. For me it was easy because I had no one in my family in the cult and because I had a profession and my professional network was based on competence and not on Scientology acquaintances. I was on staff but not in the Sea Org. I imagine for 2nd or 3rd generation people sucked into the Sea Org with no knowledge of the world, it must be much harder. Ever since I left my life has been much better and I have so many projects!
Me too, Alex. Me too.
Geir: So if it isn’t the turning away from truth that does the damage, what is it? It’s the loss of hope, of purpose. Even if the hope was false and the purpose was fake, unfulfilled or plain crazy.
It depends also on the circumstances how much one was investing and in what position and mental state one was in when leaving. Besides the loss of hope and purpose, it can be the loss of friends and family, the loss of one’s social environment – that compared to the regained freedom.
Besides gaining economical stability and adjust to the ‘normal ’world again, I had to regain mental equilibrium after dealing with PTSS (after being detained on the Ship for over a year when I decided to leave, with all its accompanying circumstances).
There is as well a common denominator as there are very different situations for different people. I’m not sure if it can be simply reduced to loss of hope and purpose. Also for people who are born into a cult there can be different aspects..
No, it can’t be reduced to just that – but this loss of hope and purpose is the argument behind why a person departing a cult is not turning away from truth – since so many apostates from very different cults experience the same. That’s all.
“So if it isn’t the turning away from truth that does the damage, what is it? It’s the loss of hope, of purpose. Even if the hope was false and the purpose was fake, unfulfilled or plain crazy.”
It can also be described as “The loss of the stable datum”. Stable data is vital to align the many factors of life. It is even senior to “purposes” , as to follow a purpose one needs a channel which is build upon stable data. The “Rules of the game” is what gives meaning to a purpose. Those “rules” are the stable data needed to “Stay in the game”.
As Scientologists we were exposed to an incredible amount of stable data which we used to align the different factors of our lives. These are some of those stable data we adopted , in order of seniority :
0. That we needed to be “saved” as spiritual beings ; the concept of a “Bridge to total freedom”.
This was the first adopted “stable” datum. We need not to be “saved” ; we just need to improve as beings , and strive at being better human beings the best way we can. Life is composed of thousand of Bridges unique to each individual.
1. That Scientology was man’s ONLY change at “Spiritual Salvation”. W/out Scn , the world would perish , and we would enter into a state of oblivion, eternal pain and darkness.
“Freedom” is a center that has many routes to it. That center is formed by the list of “Basic Agreements” which form the rules of the game we call , “LIFE”. Suffering , unhappiness, and failure , are the direct result of violations to such rules. What are the rules ? I have no clue , but only an intuitive certainty of some of them.
2. That a “Clear” and an “OT” , as defined and fully described in dozens of writings and lectures , were a reality fully attainable with Scientology , and that being full OT = Totally “free” and “saved”.
3. The LRH was a god-like individual right about everything he ever wrote about. He was “perfection” in itself as “moral qualities” is concerned ; totally incapable of evil.
4. That there is such a thing as a rigid unbending “Standard Tech” which ONLY LRH had “discovered” and was capable of modifying/improving. We would just “fuck it all up” due to our “Bank agreement” , if any of us would attempt to modify/correct “Standard Tech”.
5. That each and every failure in processing/training was a DIRECT result of a failure to apply “Standard Tech”. Absolutely no other factors needed to be taken into consideration. One simply had not done it the “LRH way” , as LRH was infallible as a researcher.
6. That all “Other practices” besides Scn were either unworkable or booby-trapped.
7. That science was mostly wrong , and that LRH had “found” the errors in the field , which most scientists couldn’t even understand. LRH “possessed” the knowledge of “advance” wholetrack science , allegedly.
8. That we all were imperfect beings full of life’s ruins that needed to be addressed by going up the “Bridge to Nowhere”. We felt compelled to “keep changing” as the only way to “survive”. To stop would mean to want to die = being out-ethics. So you were expected to KEEP YOURSELF ON THE BRIDGE.
Those 8 items became the “stable” data for most Scientologists. Now imagine someone (yourself , others) or something (websites, blogs, books) suddenly knocking out each one of those items from your life. Result ? CONFUSION = feeling lost = I no longer have a clear direction in life. Fortunately there IS a solution to the dilemma : Replace the false “stable” data by new truthful and workable data. How ? Recover your power of choice over ANY data at ANY area of life , SPECIALLY the ones where you are not an expert. Specially on those ones. Power of choice over data requires extreme intellectual honesty, high self-esteem and self-respect , and the CAPACITY to be wrong.
Peter, that was a very well written post, and I agree with most of it. You ended off with this:
“Fortunately there IS a solution to the dilemma: Replace the false ‘stable’ data by new truthful and workable data. How?…”
My answer to that, first of all, is to say that LRH missed on what mayi be the most important stable datum – which is that each and every one of us brings to any path we venture on our own fabricated “self.” Also known as “ego,” this is not the true and eternal self – i.e. theta or spirit. LRH got that one right.
A limited version of this truth about the ego – and its virtually all-encompassing effects on almost all of us – was in fact addressed in the tech with such things as ser facs and valences. But without us understanding that there is much more that makes up the ego than that, we were all set up to eventually fail – including LRH himself, which was self-admitted in his dying days.
In this 10-minute video of a portion of a talk Adyashanti recorded, he essentially describes what this missing piece in Scientology was. Let me know what you (and anyone else here) think about it:
Marildi : “Peter, that was a very well written post, and I agree with most of it. You ended off with this:
Peter : Thanks , Marildi.
TC : “Fortunately there IS a solution to the dilemma: Replace the false ‘stable’ data by new truthful and workable data. How?…”
Marildi : “My answer to that, first of all, is to say that LRH missed on what mayi be the most important stable datum – which is that each and every one of us brings to any path we venture on our own fabricated “self.” Also known as “ego,” this is not the true and eternal self – i.e. theta or spirit. LRH got that one right.”
Peter : Yeah , the concept of “Valences” or collective GPM identities that we have assumed throughout the eons.
Marildi : “A limited version of this truth about the ego – and its virtually all-encompassing effects on almost all of us – was in fact addressed in the tech with such things as ser facs and valences.”
Peter : Yes , and in the Actual GPM research (the Term and the Oppterm) , and the Life Continuum.
Marildi : “But without us understanding that there is much more that makes up the ego than that, we were all set up to eventually fail – including LRH himself, which was self-admitted in his dying days.”
Peter : I understand what you mean. I see this “Ego” as the collective of “Valence packages” that the individual has ever assumed. A Valence is more than just an identity ; it is composed of behavioral patterns , thought patterns , specific considerations about life and other people , etc , etc. Now multiply that times more than a million (millions of such “Valence packages” ) , and we have our “Ego”.
Marildi : “In this 10-minute video of a portion of a talk Adyashanti recorded, he essentially describes what this missing piece in Scientology was. Let me know what you (and anyone else here) think about it.”
Peter : Thanks for posting the video ; I watched it twice. Very interesting indeed. Adyashanti seems like a great individual. I have some minor disagreement with some point of his , but I grant it that I might have misunderstood him. At 2:26 mins in the video he says :
“In other words , the assumption that human beings make is that they are separate individual entities. That I am ultimately something separate and distinct from you and from the world around me”. (end of quote)
You see , I believe that we ARE separate individualities , and that in fact , that’s the reason why LIFE is life. Adyashanti might have meant by “Separateness” , that we are always looking for qualities or virtues outside of ourselves, when in fact , they have always been within us. If that’s the case , then I fully share that viewpoint with him. At some point in the video at least , he is clearly referring to just that. But in the above quote , it is not clear enough. I downloaded his book “The Way of Liberation” to understand more the way he thinks as I really got a nice high theta flow from him , which I usually don’t get from others. And I liked his calmness of beingness. It didn’t seem to come from his “Ego” , but from his inner self.
But regarding “Separateness” , I think that such a state is actually a very high one if it is not obsessive or compulsive. In other words , if one can be separate or not at will from anything. I feel we once belonged to an Unity of life , but that at some point before time we made our first decision : TO BE. From there on separation occurred , and units of awareness emerged to play the game called LIFE. As each unit of awareness went through different experiences looked from different viewpoints , we became distinct individuals. I think that the decision To Be connote action with the idea of havingness , and thus the need of Time and Space , and a viewpoint of dimension.
With the passing of time , we forgot our basic Self, and developed an “Ego”. All routes to Spirituality are just trying to reconnect with that basic Self. But that Self lies within ourselves and always has. Ways to reconnect with it is what we all are always looking for ; and there is no being , no matter his state of case or beingness (saint or criminal) , that isn’t trying to so reconnect.
I failed to properly ack you for your previous reply to me in the “The Borg of Ideologies” thread , Marikdi. Please , excuse my manners.
Best,
Peter
Peter : “Thanks for posting the video ; I watched it twice. Very interesting indeed. Adyashanti seems like a great individual.
You are so welcome, Peter! And I have the same impression of Adyashanti and his teaching as you do. Great minds think alike, as they say. 🙂
Peter: “You see , I believe that we ARE separate individualities, and that in fact, that’s the reason why LIFE is life.”
Absolutely true – and Adyashanti would agree too. In the quote of his you posted, regarding each of us not being “ultimately separate,” the key word there is “ultimately.” This is made clear and further explained in the next 10-minute part of his talk on basic principles. I’ll post that part below.
Briefly, my understanding is that the lack of separateness refers to all spirit/theta, which is our most basic nature and is how and why we are not, in essence, separate. Rather, we are connected with all other life units since each one has the same basic nature. And when we gain that particular awareness – not just intellectually but experientially – we operate on different values than the values of ego, the normal human beingness.
The values of ego are such things as “competition, being understood, being loved, being better than others, having control, being a victim or being a victimizer, blame, judgement and condemnation” – and also separation, since that is the basis of this game of life, as you noted.
Awakened values, on the other hand, are inherent in conscious spirit, as opposed to being learned, the way ego values are. These awakened values include truthfulness, unity (in contrast with separateness) – and freedom, since conscious spirt is itself free. And it values “freedom for all beings” (quoting Adyashanti). Other awakenead values are peace gratitude, love – and again, all of these are inherent in spirit.
There are LRH references that say essentially the same things Adyashanti is saying – but the tech itself does not directly address the primary need to transcend egoic human beingness and attain a state of conscious presence, conscious spirit. It mainly focuses on the negative experiences and stored pain – which is only part of what forms our human way of being.
I believe this is why LRH himself, in spite of his words about ultimate truth, operated from the thoughts and views he accumulated as a result of all that he had experienced in his present and past lives. He never regained the state of OT – Operating Thetan – which really means operating from our most basic nature, theta. If he had done so, it would have transformed his whole way of operating in the world, his whole way of relating and existing, because the natural values of theta would have been his natural guide.
You summed up the the whole idea very well in this part of your post:
Peter: “With the passing of time, we forgot our basic Self, and developed an ‘Ego’. All routes to Spirituality are just trying to reconnect with that basic Self. But that Self lies within ourselves and always has. Ways to reconnect with it is what we all are always looking for; and there is no being, no matter his state of case or beingness (saint or criminal), that isn’t trying to so reconnect.”
Btw, I have to go out to do some errands now, and one of them is to pick on an Adyashanti book. 😉
Marildi : “You are so welcome, Peter! And I have the same impression of Adyashanti and his teaching as you do. Great minds think alike, as they say. 🙂 ”
Peter : yes, they do, indeed! 🙂
TC: “You see , I believe that we ARE separate individualities, and that in fact, that’s the reason why LIFE is life.”
Marildi : “Absolutely true – and Adyashanti would agree too. In the quote of his you posted, regarding each of us not being “ultimately separate,” the key word there is “ultimately.” This is made clear and further explained in the next 10-minute part of his talk on basic principles. I’ll post that part below.”
Peter : Thanks! ; I’ve watched it , and realized that I had not fully understood him the first time. I liked this one even better than the first you posted.
Marildi : “Briefly, my understanding is that the lack of separateness refers to all spirit/theta, which is our most basic nature and is how and why we are not, in essence, separate. Rather, we are connected with all other life units since each one has the same basic nature. And when we gain that particular awareness – not jus t intellectually but experientially – we operate on different values than the values of ego, the normal human beingness.”
Peter : Yeah , I see your point. I’ve always liked that concept of “Unity” , which can perfectly co-exist with the concept of “Individuality”. We all came from the same “Pool of life” , I feel ; and thus each basic Self vibrates in harmonic frequencies with others creating this perfect Symphony of life. The closest physical comparable magnitude is music , specially Classic. That’s why I love Classical so much.
Marildi : “The values of ego are such things as ‘competition, being understood, being loved, being better than others, having control, being a victim or being a victimizer, blame, judgement and condemnation’ – and also separation, since that is the basis of this game of life, as you noted.”
Peter : Yeah , I see the point.
Marildi : “Awakened values, on the other hand, are inherent in conscious spirit, as opposed to being learned, the way ego values are. These awakened values include truthfulness, unity (in contrast with separateness) – and freedom, since conscious spirt is itself free. And it values “freedom for all beings” (quoting Adyashanti). Other awakened values are peace gratitude, love – and again, all of these are inherent in spirit.”
Peter : Those awakened values closely resemble the top buttons on the LRH’s Chart of Attitudes.
Marildi : “There are LRH references that say essentially the same things Adyashanti is saying – but the tech itself does not directly address the primary need to transcend egoic human beingness and attain a state of conscious presence, conscious spirit. It mainly focuses on the negative experiences and stored pain – which is only part of what forms our human way of being.”
Peter : No , the Tech doesn’t address those items at any level except perhaps in two specific processes : Raising Scale Processing and Technique 80 from the Route to Infinity lectures , were Beingness (not “becomingness” ) is addressed. Remember the thing about the circle with the triangle inside ? The circle represents Unity , and expanding our beingness to encompass more and more of life, finally reveal our true Self once we have embraced all life = Unity.
Marildi : “I believe this is why LRH himself, in spite of his words about ultimate truth, operated from the thoughts and views he accumulated as a result of all that he had experienced in his present and past lives. He never regained the state of OT – Operating Thetan – which really means operating from our most basic nature, theta.”
Peter : I think that the main reason for that is that he deviated from the principal road that he was following in the early ’50s. He started out (after DMSMH and SOS) with Beingness , but then changed his strategy to Becomingness and “Getting rid of”. Tech 80 is the closest approach to those Awakened values that Scn got.
Marildi : “If he had done so, it would have transformed his whole way of operating in the world, his whole way of relating and existing, because the natural values of theta would have been his natural guide.”
Peter : Yes indeed ; it would have changed him. I think the “Ego values” trapped him in the end. The “Term-Oppterm” of it all , you know. When there exist the idea of “Opposition”, there can be no Awakening.
Marildi : “You summed up the the whole idea very well in this part of your post: ”
TC : “With the passing of time, we forgot our basic Self, and developed an ‘Ego’. All routes to Spirituality are just trying to re connect with that basic Self. But that Self lies within ourselves and always has. Ways to reconnect with it is what we all are al ways looking for; and there is no being, no matter his state of case or beingness (saint or criminal), that isn’t trying to so reconnect.”
Marildi : “Btw, I have to go out to do some errands now, and one of the mis to pick on an Adyashanti book. 😉 ”
Peter : Enjoy it! ; I am enjoying a lot the one I downloaded. Very interesting stuff those Five Foundations. I had been doing them (at least 3 of them) since several years ago , specially in these past 6-12 months , more intensively. I’ll keep you posted of my ideas/considerations about his book once I finish it.
Take care ,
Peter
Peter : “Those awakened values closely resemble the top buttons on the LRH’s Chart of Attitudes.”
Just a quick note for now. A couple days ago, in an email exchange with a friend on the subject of Adyashanti’s teachings, I wrote the following:
——————————
Earlier this evening I thought of the “I Am” that is at the top of the Chart of Attitudes, so I went and looked it over to compare with Adya’s spirit values. The other attitudes at the top are Survives (the level below that is “I’ll live forever”), Right, Owns All, Fully Responsible, Everyone (just below that is “I am an INDIVIDUAL [my caps] as I please”), Always, Motion Source, Truth, Faith, I Know, Cause – and, lastly, I Am (the level below that is I AM MYSELF, in all caps).
To my mind, these attitudes fit in nicely with the attributes and values of spirit – and, in fact, at the end of that top level on the chart, on the far right, is written “Static (Spirit).”
———————–
I got a real kick out of you recognizing the same similarities. 🙂
” I got a real kick out of you recognizing the same similarities. 🙂 ”
Great! ; It seems we operate in similar wavelengths. 🙂
Peter: “It seems we operate in similar wavelengths. 🙂 ”
The way I would put it is that both of us have conceptual understanding of the materials. 😉
Thanks for your comment just before the one above, especially what you wrote here:
“We all came from the same ‘Pool of life’, I feel; and thus each basic Self vibrates in harmonic frequencies with others creating this perfect Symphony of life.”
That is a very interesting view of life (and poetically expressed, btw). Maybe that’s what Adya and other non-dualists mean when they say everything is perfect just as it is – the good and the bad, the beautiful and ugly, and so forth.
You added this: “The closest physical comparable magnitude is music, specially Classical. That’s why I love Classical so much.”
In a class I did at the Modern Mystery School, they teach that listening to classical music puts the mind in better order and even physically changes the brain. I’ve read that meditation also changes the brain, which I believe would also make changes in the mind as it is affected by the brain and vice verse.
As for classical music, there have been some amazing experiments on the effects of thought on water molecules, as well as the effects of music on the molecules of water – notably, classical music. If you aren’t familiar with these experiments by Dr. Masaru Emoto, here’s a short video about it, which I think you will really like:
TC: “It seems we operate in similar wavelengths. 🙂 ”
Marildi : “The way I would put it is that both of us have conceptual understanding of the materials. 😉 ”
Peter : I think I like your description of it much better. Funny, apart from you , and may be 3-5 more individuals perhaps , most Scientologists (specially Ex-Scientologists) have a VERY poor understanding of Scn ; incredible poor understanding. I honestly tell you. , Marildi , that Scn is not for everybody as LRH thought. Very few people really got it. This regardless of the destructive parts that it DOES have as well , even when 100% conceptually duplicating such parts. But my God , why the hell throw the baby out with the bath water ? The WHOLE baby , you know ? That’s just silly.
People have this incredible difficulty differentiating things. As regards Scn they operate in this relationship :
“LRH lied about his military records , professional and personal life = ALL Scn is a lie , wrong and unworkable.”
And another one :
“No ‘Clears’ and ‘OTs’ were ever produced = ALL processes in Scn doesn’t work = nothing in Scn really helps = all wins are just illusions resulting from being ‘delusional’ = past lives does not exist = there is no spirit = there is no reactive mind = there are no engrams = TO HELL WITH ALL OF SCN”.
That’s A= A = A in its MAXIMUM expression. People can’t just differentiate a damn thing. The correct differentiation would look like this :
“LRH lied/exaggerated about his military records, professional and personal life ≠ he lied about EVERYTHING ≠ ALL of Scn is a lie ≠ ALL Scn should be dismissed and discarded.”
And also :
“No real ‘Clears’ and ‘OTs’ in Scn ≠ Scn is unworkable in MANY ways ≠ ALL process does not produce any wins/gains ≠ good states of beingness can’t be reached ≠ we need to discard it all ≠ we need to throw the whole baby out with the bath water ≠ Scn doesn’t have many, many great uses”.
As a personal example that I discussed at Rinder’s some days ago (I like being an open book, you know. I don’t value “privacy” too much) , I was recently going through such a severe situation in life (Chris knows what I am referring to) , that the amount of loss and pain that I was feeling was just unbearable. I honestly wanted to end this life. If people that I really care about didn’t need me for their emotional and spiritual stability , I would have ended this life cycle , as no body could possibly resist so much pain. It was so bad , that I even considered the idea of committing myself to some kind of mental hospital to be drugged enough to just sleep all day, and forget about life for some months. (By the way , I am mostly doing some Itsa in this reply. Sorry if it is long. I just felt like writing all of it , you know).
I was what is technically called in Scn , “Out Of” (define it in the Tech Dic) , but multiplied times 10x. Now, I am a VERY experienced Solo-auditor who have performed miracles in my life with just a bunch of processes, a pen , papers, NO meter, EXCELLENT understanding of the Tech , and a mind. But this particular time I felt SO defeated, so DEAD , that I honestly didn’t think that I was going to be able to Solo-audit myself out of that mess. But because it was either Solo-processing , a mental hospital or death ; I chose the first. This was only a week ago more or less , perhaps 10 days ago.
So I took an L1C and just ran it unmetered (I developed over the years the ability to “sense” the “reads” and the “F/Ns” and BDs). Item #1 “read” so I switched to an L4BRB. Now, handling Out-lists unmetered, re-constructing old lists and remembering L&N type of Qs (either as a Self-listing type of question, an auditing question , or a wrong indication from another) ; is a bitch. It requires an accurate knowledge of the Laws of L&N.
But I made it through, ALIVE, handled ALL Out-lists, and got the whole CL to “F/N” completely in the 3rd pass through. That handled like 50-65% of the BPC. Then re-took the L1C from item #2 , and just ran it Itsa E/S to “F/N” each item that I felt “reading”. I am right now at item #24 out of 39 items, and the change is nothing but miraculous. I am out of the “Out-of” state, and out of the “Sad Effect”. I am quite extroverted , feel a lot more uptone, hopeful, and determined. And all that under 12 hrs as I tend to “F/N” an item in 5-10 mins.
It took me 12 hrs of Solo unmetered auditing to handle what would have easily caused the suicide of almost anybody. Think of you loving a person more than your life (nobody died, by the way, it is just a datum of comparable magnitude) , and then think that such a person just had a tragic death. Now multiply that times 2-3x , and you would have what I was feeling. And is somebody to tell me that I better throw this baby ( Scientology) out with the bath water out of some A=A=A identification ? THE HELL THEY ARE. I rather go back to the CofS than discarding that which works. And I have tested LOTS of other systems, I got to clarify. Some worked better than others, but so far , none better than Scn has worked for me.
Coue’s ? Excellent!!! But better don’t do it on top of an Out-list or even on top of a heavy “Sad Effect” , because you will go down. Meditation ? Excellent as well, but better have your case in shape if you do it.
Marildi : “Thanks for your comment just before the one above, especially what you wrote here: ”
Peter : You are most welcome.
TC : “We all came from the same ‘Pool of life’, I feel; and thus each basic Self vibrates in harmonic frequencies with others creatin g this perfect Symphony of life.”
Marildi : “That is a very interesting view of life (and poetically expressed, btw). Maybe that’s what Adya and other non-dualists mean when they say everything is perfect just as it is – the good and the bad, the beautiful and ugly, and so forth.”
Peter : Thanks, and yes, may be that’s what they mean.
Marildi : “You added this: “The closest physical comparable magnitude is music, specially Classical. That’s why I love Classical so much.”
Marildi : “In a class I did at the Modern Mystery School, they teach that listening to classical music puts the mind in better order and even physically changes the brain. I’ve read that meditation also changes the brain, which I believe would also make changes in the mind as it is affected by the brain and vice verse.”
Peter : Yeah, I believe you. Nothing relaxes me more than listening to Classical music. It have much better results in me than “Take a Walk” , “Look Them Over” , “Locational type of extroverting processes” , special Assists , and all those Scn Zero type of procedures. It disconnect me from the bank like nothing else does, even if the effect is not very lasting frequently. It even works with most ARCXs, w/out needing any L1Cs or Ruds , excepting heavy Out-lists , or long unhandled ARCXs which already developed into the Sad Effect. In those special cases, Music doesn’t help me that much. But besides that, music (Classical) is my best balm for the soul.
“With you I feel happy. With you my broken heart find peace and harmony as you touch my soul. There is no better lover than you, and yet I can’t touch you ; I can’t kiss you. But I do feel your love getting into my soul , taking me to the infinity of beingness ; to places where only the spirit can go. You know of no race, of no color, of no gender , of no evil as you are the most honest and just friend of all. I think of you every day as you are my best company, my lover, my eternal and most beautiful flower of all. Your perfection transcend death, transcend spaces, time and memory ; as you permeate all of life with your magical healing touch. Oh my love, how many great adventures we have shared together in this lonely world. But with you nobody is ever alone as hope is always healing the soul with the promise of a better day , with the promise to bring peace and comfort. To you my whole my heart and soul totally belongs ; my dear lover, my friend, my shinning sun.” (To Music)
Here are some beautiful pieces for you , Marildi. Lie in your bed, in your sofa and just forget of it all. Just let go of any thought as you listen to these pieces. Let music take you to where it want to take you. Let your mind wander freely and just enjoy the moment. Just feel it and be a willing prisoner of it . Let it control your inner Self, let it take you to places where only the soul can go. Enjoy it ; be free.
1. My favorite piece of all. Bach’s “Air in the G String” :
This piece communicate to me the Symphony of Life. The Unity of it all. The perfection that if Life.
2. Bach – Double violin concerto in D Minor (2nd movement Largo)
This communicate to me of two lovers – two soul mates making love as spirits in perfect harmony. Listen how the two violins are in perfect synchronization as a perfect love is. How one follows the other in perfect harmony of movements.
3. Bach – Adagio
This piece communicates to me how a man/woman misses his/her Soul mate. He/she have been looking for him/her lifetime after lifetime, but just when they feel that they found that Soul mate – it was all an illusion. So he wrote that piece to communicate his sadness ; to ask God to listen to his prayers and end his loneliness. Beautiful piece indeed. Sad and beautiful at the same time. “The beauty of sadness” to paraphrase LRH.
4. Bach – G Minor
This piece communicates to me the great happiness of a lover who finally found his Soul mate, and so he decided to write her a song to immortalize their love , as a song is as immortal as the soul.
5. Bach – Mass in B Minor
This piece is about the religiosity of man, and his attempt to find himself through religion. It is about a suffering that yearns for peace and comfort in the hands of a benevolent God.
6. And finally this last piece – Schuper’s “Ellen Third Song” known as “Ave Maria” in its modern Roman Catholic adaptations ; and sang by the best tenor that this planet ever had, Luciano Pavarotti ; communicates about FAITH and the power of Prayer.
I sincerely hope that you find the time to listen to all of them , and that they take you to places where only the mind and the soul can travel , as no body can possibly resist such beauty , so much Freedom and Space.
Marildi : “As for classical music, there have been some amazing experiments on the effects of thought on water molecules, as well as t he effects of music on the molecules of water – notably, classic al music. If you aren’t familiar with these experiments by Dr. Masaru Emoto, here’s a short video about it, which I think you will really like:”
Peter : Thanks , I watched it. VERY interesting indeed! I don’t doubt the power of music for a minute. Love and music ; the best balm for the soul.
Peter, so sorry you had such a rough time in that “out of” experience you had. It was great that you managed to get yourself through it. What a good example of why the tech is so valuable. Even some critics know deep down what the tech can do. I’m sure you know Tony De Phillips, who posts on Mike’s blog. Even though he has a lot of criticisms, I remember one time he commented that if he or some friend or relative really needed help, he would find a good auditor. I’ve seen that said by a few others too, from time to time, and there are probably others who feel the same but don’t want to admit it.
You wrote: “Funny, apart from you, and may be 3-5 more individuals perhaps, most Scientologists (specially Ex-Scientologists) have a VERY poor understanding of Scn; incredible poor understanding. I honestly tell you, Marildi, that Scn is not for everybody as LRH thought. Very few people really got it.”
That pretty much expresses what I’ve observed too, and I’ve commented on it more than once on different blogs. LRH stated that training gives 50% of the potential gains in Scn, but most Scientologists had very little training. I mentioned that in an earlier comment regarding to why the tech failed.
I have to admit I wasn’t familiar with this “out of” condition you described, but I don’t think it was on any of the Academy levels. I may have a new one for you too, which relates to your comment that “Scn is not for everybody.” I think LRH had a plan for handling even those who had trouble duplicating the tech. Here’s an excerpt from a PDC lecture:
“At any one time on Earth there were not more than about 10,000 people of a caliber, that was sufficient to do a little steering or leading. There’s only about 10,000 of them really.…
“And below that level you have something in the neighborhood of about 100,000 or 150,000, 200,000 people who have a competence of assimilation. That’s about all. You can count, then, on those people directing others or leading them…
“And if you have a savage enough truth, or a beautiful enough truth, they can go through, but don’t ever try to get a reasonable enough truth, because you won’t ever talk to reason…
“So therefore you have two levels of appeal which are quite direct and quite direct indeed is you just go ahead and you work; you don’t try to tell anybody anything beyond perhaps you intimate to them once in a while that you might be able to do something for them.
“But you could intimate that for God sakes on a… on an aesthetic, an aesthetic or a completely false sympathy line. ‘Oh, you poor fellow’…”
PDC-61 “How to Talk to Friends about Scientology” 18 Dec 52
Marildi : “Peter, so sorry you had such a rough time in that “out of” experience you had. It was great that you managed to get yourself through it. ”
Peter : Thanks , Marildi ; most kind. And yes , it was great indeed. I’ve always managed to get myself out of situations somehow. My Vedic astrologer says that I was allegedly born in a day where there was a planetary alignment , and that this “protect” me somehow of any evil , and gives me an unusual spiritual strength. Perhaps he is not that full of bs as I thought. 🙂
Marildi : “What a good example of why the tech is so valuable. Even some critics know deep down what the tech can do.”
Peter : Yes , I feel they do as well. If they didn’t , they wouldn’t protest that much. I think they do protest because they feel betrayed as they believed. But one only believed (we the smart ones as most ex-Scientologists were/are) because we PERCEIVED truth in it. Otherwise , most of us would have dismissed it decades ago , and wouldn’t be posting so much staying close to the subject , you know. They would have gone on with their life , and would have forgotten about it all. They fact that most of them don’t , must mean something , I feel.
Marildi : “I’m s ure you know Tony De Phillips, who posts on Mike’s blog.”
Peter : Yeah , we had had some “minor” conflicts before at BIC. In fact it was my heated exchange with Tony at BIC , the last thread of the blog. But I felt (still DO) that he was being plain abusive with UTRs , and I was not going to tolerate that. I wrote the BIC Admin about it (my friend then) , and demanded “him” to put a leash on Tony or to stop moderating my comments to him (which were QUITE heated ; I can be a devil, you know). It all become a big mess with Tony, Calvin, a few others and me, writing and demanding to him at the same time, and the blog just died right there. “He” just got tired of so much bs , you know, and just quit.
I tried to apologize for being so pushy and demanding but he never ever answered my comms any more , even with several “Good Roads, Good Weather” letters. It was a big loss to me as I owed him my spiritual awakening as regards to keeping a cult mentality regarding Scn and life in general. So yes , I do know Tony and of his misguided ideas and methods.
Marildi : “Even though he has a lot of criticisms, I remember one time he commented that if he or some friend or relative really needed help , he would find a good auditor. I’ve seen that said by a few others too, from time to time, and there are probably others who feel the same but don’t want to admit it.”
Peter : Yes , I’ve noticed the same. Between “you and me” , Mike frequently recommends to others Scientology auditors he trust. Gee , even Alanzo uses his own “modified” version of Scn. 🙂 And I have a friend who just hates LRH’s guts , but just LOVE Bk-1 auditing , to the point of insisting of getting it from me. I am not active , though. I only do Solo and research. I just can’t charge for my services (I am priest-like regarding that) , and I need to eat and pay me bills , you know.
Marildi : “You wrote: ‘Funny, apart from you, and may be 3-5 more individuals perhaps, most Scientologists (specially Ex-Scientologists) have a VERY poor understanding of Scn; incredible poor understanding . I honestly tell you, Marildi, that Scn is not for everybody as LRH thought. Very few people really got it’. ”
Marildi : “That pretty much expresses what I’ve observed too, and I’ve commented on it more than once on different blogs. LRH stated t hat training gives 50% of the potential gains in Scn, but most Scientologists had very little training.”
Peter : Yeah, and not only little training as in “Academy level” training , but what they read , they frequently don’t get , and don’t have power of choice over the data to make it theirs.
Marildi : “I mentioned that in an earlier comment regarding to why the tech failed.”
Peter : I noticed that earlier comment of yours , and found it agreeable with my own views. But I wasn’t in the “being a supporter” mode those days , sorry. You know how much of a dichotomy I can become. 🙂
Marildi : I have to admit I wasn’t familiar with this “out of” condition you described, but I don’t think it was on any of the Academy levels.”
Peter : I don’t think it was neither. An SHSBC student do stumble upon that HCOB as he studies the Tech vols chronologically. It is HCOB 19 Agust 1963 , “How to Do an ARC Break Assessment”. It is a great issue. You can find it at page 345 of the Tech vol V of the 1979 edition (much superior than the 1991 one). It is the precursor of the L1C (and other CLs) as that CL usually contains all the different types of BPC that an ARCx Assessment handles.
But there are also other types of BPC like the Out-Int phenomena the Out-list , the restimulated engram , etc , that are covered in other CLs like L4BRB and C/S-53. But Corrections lists had not been developed yet in the BC era , but were about to. And also LRH sort of had the idea on that HCOB that an ARCx was frequently caused by just one specific BPC , but it is actually caused by various types of BPC. When the BPC includes items like the ones in the L1C mixed with Out-list and ARCXs of long duration (which causes the “Sad Effect” ) , you have then an incredible restimulative state called “Out Of” . That’s what I had. Excellent HCOB indeed. Here is a small quote from it :
“Similarly people in life get restimulated also, but with nobody to locate the charge. Thus Scientologists are lucky. In heavily restimulated circumstances the person goes OUT OF. In such a condition people want to stop things, cease to act, halt life, and failing this they try to run away. As soon as the actual by-passed charge is found and recognized as the charge by the person, up goes Affinity and Reality and Communication and life can be lived. Therefore ARC Breaks are definite, their symptoms are known, their cure is very easy with this understanding and technology. An ARC Break Assessment seeks to locate the charge that served, being hidden, as a whip-hand force on the person. When it is located life returns. Locating the actual bypassed charge is returning life to the person. Therefore, properly handling ARC Breaks can be called, with no exaggeration “Returning Life to the person”. LRH
Marildi : “I may have a new one for you too, which relates to your comment that “Scn is not for everybody.” I think LRH had a plan for handling even those who had trouble duplicating the tech. Here’s an excerpt from a PDC lecture:
“At any one time on Earth there were not more than about 10, 000 people of a caliber, that was sufficient to do a little steering or leading. There’s only about 10,000 of them really.…
Peter : That one above is the one used (together with the data on SOS about Theta being capable of des-enturbulating areas of Entheta) for the arbitrary set target of 10,000 Solo-NOTs completions.
“And below that level you have something in the neighborhood of about 100,000 or 150,000, 200,000 people who have a competence of assimilation. That’s about all. You can count, then, on those people directing others or leading them…
“And if you have a savage enough truth, or a beautiful enough truth, they can go through, but don’t ever try to get a reasonable enough truth, because you won’t ever talk to reason…
“So therefore you have two levels of appeal which are quite direct and quite direct indeed is you just go ahead and you work; you don’t try to tell anybody anything beyond perhaps you intimate to them once in a while that you might be able to do something for them.”
“But you could intimate that for God sakes on a… on an aesthetic, an aesthetic or a completely false sympathy line. ‘Oh, you poor fellow’…”
PDC-61 “How to Talk to Friends about Scientology” 18 Dec 52
Peter : Good quote , thanks! I have to agree with LRH there, based on my own experiences with people and in teaching others.
Peter: “No ‘Clears’ and ‘OTs’ were ever produced = ALL processes in Scn doesn’t work = nothing in Scn really helps = all wins are just illusions resulting from being ‘delusional’ = past lives does not exist = there is no spirit = there is no reactive mind = there are no engrams = TO HELL WITH ALL OF SCN”.
That was very well stated. IMO, the irrationality of it gives away the underlying intention to make nothing of it all. Marty’s current blog post is titled “Culture of Complaint,” and it has to do with “those who peddle in nothing but complaints.” It’s pretty good; you should check it out. I think it explains what’s going on with many Scn critics, although Marty didn’t limit this complaining culture to Scientology.
On a higher note, hanks for the lovely poetry that begins “With you I feel happy…” Did you write that? And thanks for the list of classical music selections – you are way above my league on most of that. But here’s one I do know. Enjoy. 🙂
TC: “No ‘Clears’ and ‘OTs’ were ever produced = ALL process es in Scn doesn’t work = nothing in Scn really helps = all wins a re just illusions resulting from being ‘delusional’ = past lives do es not exist = there is no spirit = there is no reactive mind = th ere are no engrams = TO HELL WITH ALL OF SCN”.
Marildi : “That was very well stated. IMO, the irrationality of it gives away the underlying intention to make nothing of it all.
Peter : Yes , but even below that underlying intention lies a stop of being denied “Freedom” from their perspectives, and that’s what most of them are dramatizing , I feel ; the Failed Help of it all , you know. Remember that lecture/article, “When Help Becomes Betrayal ?
Marildi : “Marty’s current blog post is titled “Culture of Complaint,” and it has to do with “those who peddle in nothing but complaints.” It’s pretty good; you should check it out.”
Peter : Thanks, I will.
Marildi : “I think it explains what’s going on with many Scn critics, although Marty didn’t limit this complaining culture to Scientology.”.
Peter Got it, I’ll take a look at it. Marty is an excellent writer indeed.
Marildi : “On a higher note, thanks for the lovely poetry that begins “With you I feel happy…” Did you write that? ”
Peter : Yes, it is mine. I have my days of inspiration , you know. Not as many as I used to have a decade or more ago when I was still in love with life – now I am more like in protest about it all , Jjjj – but from time to time I sublimate with the right inspiration. 🙂 I just did it in a rush when I was replying to you, and didn’t put much attention to correct metric and form. So it is more like a rough draft . But I wanted you to have it anyway , and to show you the real “Me”. That poem is the real “Self” when I am not enturbulated and overwhelmed by all my conflicting Egos. Unfortunately, it remains mostly hidden from view. What can I say , I lost my connection with myself.
Marildi : “And thanks for the list of classical music selections – you are way above my league on most of that. But here’s one I do know. Enjoy. 🙂
Peter : “Above your league” ? My God Marildi , that’s one of the most beautiful song that I have ever listened to. Sang by the voice of an angel. What beautiful lyric indeed!! I couldn’t avoid the tears. She was capable of filling all that space with a voice that compete with the beauty of a violin ; a voice that touch the soul ; a lyric that makes one feel so connected with life , with hope , with love. Thank you so much for it ; I really enjoyed a lot.
Peter: “That poem is the real ‘Self’ when I am not enturbulated and overwhelmed by all my conflicting Egos. Unfortunately, it remains mostly hidden from view. What can I say, I lost my connection with myself.”
The poem was really beautiful – a beautiful sadness, as you wrote in another post. Maybe you should spend more time in the area of art and aesthetics, with both your own and others’ creations. Art works for some people like meditation, because it takes one out of the “lower self,” the ego, and back into consciousness as a spirit.
Peter : “’Above your league’? My God Marildi, that’s one of the most beautiful songs that I have ever listened to. Sung by the voice of an angel. What beautiful lyric indeed!!”
I feel the exact same way! By “above my league,” I meant that unlike yourself I haven’t ever gotten “into” classical music. But one of the selections you listed was Bach’s Adagio and it reminded me of that song by the same title.
Peter: “I couldn’t avoid the tears. She was capable of filling all that space with a voice that compete with the beauty of a violin; a voice that touch the soul; a lyric that makes one feel so connected with life, with hope, with love. Thank you so much for it; I really enjoyed a lot.”
Beautifully described – and again, I feel the same. We could also say that she’s an incredible actress. Here’s another one for you:
TC : “That poem is the real ‘Self’ when I am not enturbulate d and overwhelmed by all my conflicting Egos. Unfortunately, it remains mostly hidden from view. What can I say, I lost my connection with myself.”
Marildi : “The poem was really beautiful – a beautiful sadness, as you wrote in another post.”
Peter : Thanks , most kind ; I am glad you like it.
Marildi : “Maybe you should spend more time in the area of art and aesthetics, with both your own and others’ creations. Art works for some people like meditation, because it takes one out of the ‘lower self,’ the ego, and back into consciousness as a spirit.”
Peter : Thanks , I think I should. Several years ago (perhaps 2 decades) I was a very art-oriented individual. I loved poetry , and was frequently in love with ideas , with unreachable ideals. Back then I was able to write poetry that many considered very inspirational. Poetry was a means for me to express all this admiration that I felt towards life ; all my romanticism that I wanted to share with that one soulmate that I never found , but always kept alive as an idea , as an ideal that gave meaning to my life.
I chose poetry as , even though I knew how to play the guitar (not that professional) , I didn’t have the voice to express all those emotions inside me. When I listen to Lara with all her immense romanticism , I feel duplicated in the way that I also wanted to express it , with that much intensity, with that much heart , love and sincerity put into it. I would have done it totally for free and w/out seeking any fame as I only wanted to pass on to others , with full duplication, all those feelings that I was capable of back then. Oh , what an incredible dream would that had been indeed! To be able to “touch” the hearts of others. To bring inspiration , romance and beauty to many individuals at the same time.
But too many losses, a heart that bled to death , and too many accumulated O/Ws killed that art in me. Now I am trying to get it back. And you have inspired me to do so in ways you can’t even imagine , as I see so much of the real me in you.
And yes , art and aesthetics definitively get you closer to our real Selves , as art is way up there just a tiny bit below Theta. It reminds me of LRH’s Scn 8-80 and the “White and Black Processing”. That procedure was based on the datum that “Art = Beauty = Aesthetics” , which is a wavelength just a little bit below Theta itself, and for all practical purposes, can be considered even equal in many cases. Here are some quotes from the above book :
“What wave most closely approximates theta? It would be one of nearly infinite smallness, and that wave is found to be aesthetic, the wave length of the arts. Reason, analytical waves, are too coarse to attain theta’s zero or infinity “wave length”. Art alone may do so. The proof of all this is its workability. And it works. We have, then:
Aesthetics
Reason
Emotion
Effort
“To make theta hold a facsimile of emotion or effort, or even reason, the facsimile itself must contain an aesthetic wave. The last alone can hold the recordings of pain, grief, exhaustion, aberration and force in upon theta.”
“What do we mean by aesthetic? We mean solely, and only, Beautiful. Beauty is theta. Any wave close to theta is taken by theta for beauty. ”
“Beauty is a wave length closely resembling theta or a harmony approximating theta.”
TC : ” ’Above your league’? My God Marildi, that’s one of the most beautiful songs that I have ever listened to. Sung by the voice of an angel. What beautiful lyric indeed!!”
Marildi : “I feel the exact same way! By ‘above my league,’ I meant that unlike yourself I haven’t ever gotten ‘into’ classical music.”
Peter : Got it ; thanks for the clarification. I feel that if you can appreciate (as in “Music Appreciation” ) such a lovely and artful song as Lara’s “Adagio” , you would probably like Classical too if you try it. Did you like any of those pieces ?
Marildi : “But one of the selections you listed was Bach’s Adagio and it reminded me of that song by the same title.”
Peter : Ok. By the way , the musical composition of Lara’s “Adagio” is largely based on a special musical arrangement (a VERY beautiful one, I may add) of Albinoni’s “Adagio” . Here it is so you can compare :
“Adagio” is an Italian word meaning “slowly” , and coming also from the expression “Ad gio” = “At ease”. An Adagio in music is a tempo (the speed or pace of a piece) marking that indicate that the piece is to be played slowly. Adagios in Classical music are slow lovely pieces that inspire peace, harmony, the unity of it all. In ballet , a Ballet Adagio is an incredible beautiful piece that is danced slowly. Watch this beautiful dance. Notice the harmony between them. Notice how she jumps into his arms knowing that he will always catch her ; that he will never let her down. The are two selves that are really one :
By the way , they are dancing under the tune of Albinoni’s “Adagio”.
TC : “I couldn’t avoid the tears. She was capable of filling all that space with a voice that compete with the beauty of a violin; a voice that touch the soul; a lyric that makes one feel so connected with life, with hope, with love. Thank you so much for it; I really enjoyed a lot.”
Marildi : “Beautifully described – and again, I feel the same.”
Peter : Thanks! , if you feel that same way , that can only means that that you are an individual full of Romanticism as in this definition of “Romantic” :
“A person who is romantic, as in being idealistic, amorous (loving) , and soulful”.
Marildi : “We could also say that she’s an incredible actress.”
Peter : Yes, she is DEFINITIVELY a great actress , though it feels to me that she is actually living all these emotions and sort of feeling them , you know. Apart from her , I’ve only seen other singer with that capacity. He is a man that went by the artistic name, “Sandro” , frequently called, “Sandro of America”. His music were pure poetry of love indeed. You could feel all his emotions on each song he sang. He was nothing like Lara , of course , but his drama , his poetry and emotions are comparable. Unfortunately , he only sang in Spanish. He was an idol in Latin America ; a true poet. Here is one song just for you. I couldn’t find a video with the lyric subtitled in English, so I found a translations for you. Here is the video and below the translation :
Translation : Song, “Because I. Love You” , Sandro of America :
“Because of the quiver I see in your look , I can sense that you must be suffering the same way I suffer because of this situation which clouds one’s judgement without letting one think.”
“What is to become Of this singular drama that exists between us, trying to feign a mere friendship while in reality passions are stirring which bite at the heart , and make me refrain [from saying] I love you, I love you.”
“(chorus) Your ruby lips Of crimson red seem to murmur a thousand things without speaking and I, here, sitting before you, I feel my blood draining unable to speak, trying to say [that] perhaps it’s best I leave this place ; that we may never see each other again . After all, what difference would it make? I know I would suffer for it , but at long last my heart would be at ease , and I’d at last be able to shout, “I love you, I love you!”
“(spoken) I love you, more than anything else in the world.”
(chorus)
“I love you.”
End of translation.
Marildi : “Here’s another one for you: ”
Peter : You are going to bleed my heart to a beautiful death if you keep on posting such beautiful songs , Marildi. But I can have a beautiful death. Incredible how much feeling she put into that song. She was actually living her song. I loved this part , “You deprived me of all my songs ; you emptied me of all my words”.
“There are loves that can kill you, but I rather live one minute with true love within my soul , than live an empty life waiting for it to come”.
You see what you are doing ? You getting the poet out of me. What happened with the scientists and the Scn critic ? With the man who tended towards self righteousness and criticism ? What happened with the man that had stopped creating life ? With the man that had lost the beauty of the world ? I have nobody else to blame but you. Are you going to help me to forget as well ? Are you going to teach me to not miss , to not need as well ? Can you hypnotize me and make me forget about the ideal ? Can you help me to dream of something else ? To fill my mind with other thoughts ? Cause I might need all that too.
“That was very well stated. IMO, the irrationality of it gives away the underlying intention to make nothing of it all.’
I don’t get how you can call that intention “underlying.”
Good catch, Chris. You’re right – it was sort of a logical leap. 🙄
I had in mind that the usual stated “intention” is to warn others about how bad Scientology. But the description of it, as Peter summarized, shows very poor logic – poor computation. And when that occurs there’s a held-down 7 somewhere. Hence, the irrationality of the rhetoric.
Oh, wow – I didn’t realize you posted all the videos with those pieces. They don’t show up on the email notification of the comment. Thank you, Peter!
Here’s another Lara Fabian I like, just for you :
Marildi : “Oh, wow – I didn’t realize you posted all the videos with those pieces. They don’t show up on the email notification of the comment. Thank you, Peter!
Peter : You are most welcome , Marildi.
Marildi : “Here’s another Lara Fabian I like, just for you :”
Peter : Wow , what a beautiful song indeed!!! So much feeling and romanticism ; I love it , thank you! You seem to know my taste in music. I am going to write a lyric just for you as you have inspired me so much with those lovely songs. But I want it to be perfect , so I’ll take my time to make it perfect.
Take care , and thanks for being such a lovely and unique individual.
Peter
Peter: “Wow, what a beautiful song indeed!!! So much feeling and romanticism; I love it, thank you! You seem to know my taste in music. I am going to write a lyric just for you as you have inspired me so much with those lovely songs. But I want it to be perfect, so I’ll take my time to make it perfect.
Okay. I can have that. 😀
Peter: “Take care, and thanks for being such a lovely and unique individual.”
I think you’re looking through lovely and unique eyes. 😉
TC : “Wow, what a beautiful song indeed!!! So much feeling and romanticism; I love it, thank you! You seem to know my taste in music. I am going to write a lyric just for you as you have inspired me so much with those lovely songs. But I want it to be perfect, so I’ll take my time to make it perfect.”
Marildi : “Okay. I can have that. 😀 ”
Peter : Great!
TC : “Take care, and thanks for being such a lovely and unique individual.”
Marildi : “I think you’re looking through lovely and unique eyes. 😉 ”
Peter : Thanks! ; you are so sweet that I am going to post another one of Sandro’s songs just for you. He doesn’t have the violin voice that Lara has , and the musical composition of the time wasn’t Orchestra-type as those that Lara has and other high ranking singers. But his passion , his great poetry, the feeling and romanticism that he was capable of embedding into a song , made him very loved in the Latin American World. He was frequently called , “The Argentine Elvis ”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandro_de_Am%C3%A9rica
I couldn’t find this video with English subtitles but only with Spanish subtitles. However, I did translated it for you as the Online translation didn’t make justice to the poetry of the song. When you watch the video, you’ll see many sentences (verses) appearing. Below are each of those verses as they appear, line by line, so you don’t get lost. Below each line within brackets, is the English translation of each verse or independent line as they appear in the video. I hope you like it. Here is the video :
Title : “Penumbras” (Gloom)
“La noche (the night)
Se perdió en tu pelo
(Got lost into your hair)
La luna (The moon)
Se aferró a tu piel (Clang to your skin)
Y el Mar se sintió celoso
(And the Sea felt jealous)
Y quizo en tus ojos
(And wanted to be)
Estar él también
(In your eyes as well)
Tu boca (Your mouth)
Sensual , peligrosa
(Sensual , dangerous)
Tus manos (Your hands)
La dulzura son (Gentleness they are)
Tu aliento fatal fuego lento
(Your breath , Fatal slow fire)
Que quema mis ansias
(That burn my longings)
Y mi corazón
(And my heart as well)
(High part or chorus of the song)
Ternura que sin prisa apura
(Tenderness that leisurely hurries)
Caricias (Caresses)
Que brinda el amor
(That love provides)
Caprichos (Whims)
Muy despacio dichos
(Very slowly said)
Entre la penumbra
(Between the gloom)
De un sueño interior
(Of an inside dream)
(Slow part of the song again)
Te quiero
(I love you)
Y ya nada importa
(And nothing else matters anymore)
La vida (Life)
Lo ha dictado así
(Has decided it that way)
Si quieres (If you want me to)
Yo te doy el mundo
(I can give you the world)
Pero no me pidas
(But don’t ever ask me)
Que no te ame así
(To not love you like this)
(High ending part of the song)
Si quieres (If you want me to)
Yo te doy el mundo
(I can give you the world)
Pero no me pidas
(But don’t ever ask me)
Que no te ame así
(Not to love you like this)
Not to love you like this
Not to love you like this” (End of song)
ADVICE: Because of the very long lasting reverberating effects of a life in Scientology and other cult religions and practices, I admonish anyone involved to be tuned up and watchful for oddball effects springing up far into the future. My own estimate is 1:1 ratio for everyday IN, at least one day of UNRAVELLING. Long after one is done, one should be watchful and anticipating sometimes alarming reactions which are the results of their Scientology conditioning. Others might want to comment about this 1:1 ratio whether is your experience or not.
“ADVICE: Because of the very long lasting reverberating effects of a life in Scientology and other cult religions and practices, I admonish anyone involved to be tuned up and watchful for oddball effects springing up far into the future. My own estimate is 1:1 ratio for everyday IN, at least one day of UNRAVELLING. Long after one is done, one should be watchful and anticipating sometimes alarming reactions which are the results of their Scientology conditioning. Others might want to comment about this 1:1 ratio whether is your experience or not.”
Advice well taken, Chris. It happens fo me every time, even when I had thought that I had completely deprogrammed myself from the cult aspect. But many aspects insidiously blind our judgment with varying frequency. I feel that for me the ratio has been closer to 1: 5 ; 1 year of unravelling but each 5 years in.
I should have said, “1 year of unravelling for each 5 years in”.
““1 year of unravelling for each 5 years in”.”
Thank you. I understood that. Let’s all just keep an open mind as we continue our lives and spot and acknowledge cult-think in ourselves and others whenever we can. Life changes and life changes us. Those forks in the road change us forever, for we truly never go back to take the other road “as just as fair and having perhaps the better claim because it was grassy and wanted wear. I kept the first for another day, yet knowing how way leads on to way, I doubted if I should ever come back.” ~Frost.
Chris : “Thank you. I understood that. Let’s all just keep an open mind as we continue our lives and spot and acknowledge cult-think in ourselves and others whenever we can.”
Peter : Sounds very sensible!
Chris : “Life changes and life changes us. Those forks in the road change us forever, for we truly never go back to take the other road ‘as just as fair and having perhaps the better claim because it was grassy and wanted wear. I kept the first for another day, yet knowing how way leads on to way, I doubted if I should ever come back.’ ~Frost.”
Peter : Great quote!
Thanks Peter. My reason for writing that is for each of us to go easy on ourselves. Try to understand that these things take time and to cut ourselves some slack. Unravelling from the tendrils of cult-think and cult-life is neither simple nor instant. I see this in myself and others but grant there isn’t a precise estimate. I had felt that I was still in 10 years after I had been declared. I was still following their rules. I felt like such a moron. But even since leaving mentally I continue to uncover cult-think long after leaving cult-life. It truly tears ones universe to turn away from “the truth.”
Chris : “Thanks Peter. My reason for writing that is for each of us to go easy on ourselves.”
Peter : You are most welcome ; and yes , I understand your point. We do need to go easier on ourselves.
Chris : “Try to understand that these things take time and to cut ourselves some slack. Unravelling from the tendrils of cult-think and cult-life is neither simple nor instant.”
Peter : Yeah, I know, Chris. It is process much similar to healing from the loss of a loved one ; it is a slow process that takes therapy, patience , understanding , care and time. And even with all that , frequently those wounds never fully heal.
Chris : “I see this in myself and others but grant there isn’t a precise estimate. I had felt tha t I was still in 10 years after I had been declared. I was still following their rules. I felt like such a moron.”
Peter : Don’t be hard on yourself , Chris ; the same happened to a LOT of us. In my case , even after I had been off lines for more than 12 years , I still sort of felt miss withholdy when attempting to Solo-process myself. I was still trying to do it the “LRH way”.
Chris : “But even since leaving mentally I continue to uncover cult-think long after leaving cult-life. It truly tears ones universe to turn away from “the truth.”
Peter : I know , Chris , I know. The way I try to handle it myself is to just focus on the good parts ; the good experiences ; the lessons learned. I had great times too while I was on staff. Times that I cherish a lot. I met great friends ; I helped a lot of people as an auditor. Gee , I even made quite a few miracles in physical healing. The truth is , Chris , that we didn’t take up Christianity , Buddhism , Yoga or Catholicism. We took up Scientology. I think we are pretty smart individuals , and we would never have taken anything which doesn’t contain some basic truths in it ; we just would never have. But mixed with those basic truths , there were also lies and half-truths ; and those were the ones that did the damage. But the truths have always been there as well. And those are what we miss. What we don’t want to let go of. And it is quite all right not to let go, you know ; it is quite all right.
“But the truths have always been there as well. And those are what we miss. What we don’t want to let go of. And it is quite all right not to let go, you know ; it is quite all right.”
Well said Peter. I’m no longer trying to make Scientology fit in with what I think about the world. I just surprise myself at times by what bit of false data I might still be thinking with. Since making decisions to solo, in other words take ownership of my own spiritual development, I have felt so very free. And that wog world that Hubbard ridiculed? Yeah, that one. I’ve found an entire universe to titillate and to intrigue me. The world is so very big. I feel lucky to be here now and fortunate to live in a cozy corner of the world where social strife is mostly fed to me through a TV set rather than real danger inside and outside my home.
I wonder at the truths of extreme athletes because they represent the best physical examples of OT phenomena. Valentino Rossi is a world champion moto grand prix motorcycle racer. If you click his name, there’s a short clip of him racing. I marvel at the focus of attention that these guys can bring to bear and I marvel at the thousand noisy things per second that they know not to pay attention to. Calvin down in Durban is an old racer from way back, so he knows what I’m referring. I don’t know if you’ve been involved in any of these extreme activities, so won’t make any assumptions. I watch these racers going 200 mph and wonder during their racing what their truths are. Maybe this is a good way to live life by paying attention only to those things one must pay attention to and ignoring the multitude of things which one has absolutely no extra attention to spend on and must ignore. I’m probably not making a cogent point here but I want to. Maybe it is a false idea.
Chris : “Well said Peter. I’m no longer trying to make Scientology fit in with what I think about the world.”
Peter : I understand , Chris.
Chris : “I just surprise myself at times by what bit of false data I might still be thinking with.”
Peter : Yeah , I have my own reality on that.
Chris : “Since making decisions to solo, in other words take ownership of my own spiritual development, I have felt so very free. And that wog world that Hubbard ridiculed? Yeah, that one. I’ve found an entire universe to titillate and to intrigue me.”
Peter : Same happened to me ; I suddenly woke up to a whole different world so full of interesting games to play.
Chris : “The world is so very big. I feel lucky to be here now and fortunate to live in a cozy corner of the world where social strife is mostly fed to me through a TV set rather than real danger inside and outside my home.”
Peter : Must be Europe , cause the USA , the hispanic world, and Asia , are everything but cozy. 🙂
Chris : “I wonder at the truths of extreme athletes because they represent the best physical examples of OT phenomena. Valentino Rossi ( https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=JY9mrKR5SkA ) is a world champion moto grand prix motorcycle racer. If you click his name, there’s a short clip of him racing. I marvel at the focus of attention that these guys can bring to bear and I marvel at the thousand noisy things per second that they know not to pay attention to.”
Peter : Above case gain is competence, to paraphrase LRH. I always admire the competent individual. “Power is being able to do what one is doing when one is doing it” , to paraphrase LRH again , as much as I resist from doing that. These people are very competent, and can really focus.
Chris : “Calvin down in Durban is an old racer from way back, so he knows what I’m referring.”
Peter : Really ? I knew he was into sports , specifically body-building stuff , but I didn’t know he was into extreme sports.
Chris : “I don’t know if you’ve been involved in any of these extreme activities, so won’t make any assumptions.”
Peter : Me ? God no ; I was never into sports , not even when I was a kid. My free time I spent it at the school library or reading a novel. I was the classic nerd you see in the movies. The most “extreme” that I ever practiced was martial arts. I became a master , but I was in not so much for the sport part of it , but because of its philosophy of life. But I was never that adventurous. To sweat was never my hobby , jjjjj. I am very strong , but VERY physically clumsy as well.
Chris : “I watch these racers going 200 mph and wonder during their racing what their truths are. Maybe this is a good way to live life by paying attention only to those things one must pay attention to and ignoring the multitude of things which one has absolutely no extra attention to spend on and must ignore.”
Peter : You are right about that!!!
Chris : “I’m probably not making a cogent point here but I want to. Maybe it is a false idea.”
Peter : No , you are making good sense to me ; I was following you just fine. And your ideas are quite all right.
This post is for you , Marildi.
I wanted to thank you for helping me (even though that you probably feel confused as to how you ever did that) to recover my Romanticism for life. Romanticism was a movement that occurred at the end of the 18th century and lasted roughly a century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism
“Whereas Enlightenment thinkers value logic, reason, and rationality, Romantics value emotion, passion, and individuality.”
Romanticism revived Medievalism in its artistic expressions including the Middle Age Romance. “L’amour, toujours l’amours”. That was a period of the “Beautiful sadness” of loving an ideal, but that as an ideal, gave passion and inspiration to life. Life was back then , the most beautiful romantic expression of it all. Poetry, literature, painting, and music, expressed a full sense of individualism and independent thought. But this didn’t result in a bunch of individuated individuals, but it rather resulted in individuals who could understand and tolerate each other , as art is an expression of the best characteristics of life, and thus , an artist can really communicate , understand , and be compassionate and empathetic about his fellow beings.
I had always been a Romantic in the FULL sense of the word , but I had abandoned that beingness (a true Self) out of past failures in my 2D. I had decided , “To hell with the 2D , I don’t want to have to do anything with it ever again ; I am done, this is just a silly and destructive game”. So I became literally a “priest” in all senses of the word. I’ve been a “priest” for the last 5-6 years of my life. But what I had done , and unwittingly so , was to kill all creativity that IS part of the 2D. Most creative impulses, specially artistic expression, originates from the 2D , REGARDLESS of having a love partner or not. Most Scientologists objected to that 2D definition that only appeared in the “Route to Infinity” lectures. But it REALLY communicated to me instantly , and was in perfect harmony with the concept of “Sublimation of sex into creative thought” as part of a high scale manifestation , that LRH describes in SOS.
Oddly enough, Napoleon Hill discusses this point of “creativity and the 2D” (not using the word “2D” , of course) in his “Think and Grow Rich” best-selling book. He also seems to have grasped the concept. If our 2D is suppressed in any way – and more so if WE ourselves are the ones suppressing it – then we lose all of our most beautiful creative impulses. We lose art and thus beauty. We lose illusions and the beautiful ideals. We become a slave of “Reality” , conforming to a middle-class attitude type of empty existence where adventure , unpredictavility, the beauty of forms , passion, and romanticism are but a long gone memory. In short , be just become “survivors” instead of the creators of life, capable of painting beautiful canvas in the very fabric of existence.
To you , my VERY dear lady , I owe my return to the wonderful world of creation and Romanticism. Perhaps you are confused as to how you did that as you probably feel that you was just exchanging some comms and videos with me. I don’t know how it happen exactly, I just know that it did.
I am really sorry if I let myself get carried away by my passions , and perhaps unwittingly forced comms on you that you preferred not to have ; and emotions that perhaps you rather not have thrown at you. It wasn’t meant to make you feel uncomfortable. We have never really met , neither know anything about each other , so it was a crazy idea from me to dwelve in the ideal of it all , and to create this fictional world in my mind. I was only attempting to feel the touch of love again , perhaps misguidedly so like a child. As I said , I sometimes get carried away by my passion for art, and dramatize Medieval Romanticism ; ” L’amour, toujours l’amours”. Lara’s videos triggered it all. And I thought , “My God, anyone loving that type of songs can only be a Romantic individual in love with life”. And my mind wandered , and built this fantasy world filled with beautiful thoughts. How child-like of me.
Anyway , I just wanted to let you know that , and to thank you from the bottom of my heart for having helped me to recover some of the passion and art that I had suppressed all these past years. Perhaps one day we’ll meet in the flesh ; perhaps not. I am only very grateful of having met you in the world of ideas and words.
de tout mon cœur ,
Peter
Peter: “To you , my VERY dear lady, I owe my return to the wonderful world of creation and Romanticism. Perhaps you are confused as to how you did that as you probably feel that you was just exchanging some comms and videos with me. I don’t know how it happen exactly, I just know that it did.”
I’m thrilled if I did that! And I understand how it could happen – I really do.
Peter: “I am really sorry if I let myself get carried away by my passions, and perhaps unwittingly forced comms on you that you preferred not to have ; and emotions that perhaps you rather not have thrown at you. It wasn’t meant to make you feel uncomfortable. We have never really met , neither know anything about each other , so it was a crazy idea from me to delve in the ideal of it all , and to create this fictional world in my mind. I was only attempting to feel the touch of love again, perhaps misguidedly so like a child.”
Not at all, Peter!! I loved your comms – they were real communication, coming from the heart. Or more literally – from the being. I thoroughly enjoyed the last videos you posted – the ballet, the classical Adagio and Sandro. The second one of Sandro was on a par with Lara! Thanks for all the translations of lyrics too – poignant!
It seems that synchronicity is with us, because I’ve experienced the things you’ve been expressing, and not that long ago I started to have some understanding about those things. The non-dual teachers like Adyashanti gave me this understanding. It has to do with our biggest creation – our personal identity as a human being. To call it “ego” might put it in too much of a negative category – unless we have a perspective on the ego that is based on our true identity as spirit. The Jamaican master Mooji, even though he is also a non-dual teacher, says “Duality is not a mistake” and explains that in less than 7 minutes in the video below
Peter: “Anyway , I just wanted to let you know that, and to thank you from the bottom of my heart for having helped me to recover some of the passion and art that I had suppressed all these past years. Perhaps one day we’ll meet in the flesh; perhaps not. I am only very grateful of having met you in the world of ideas and words.”
You telling me I’ve helped you in that way is music to my ears. I trust we’ll keep “meeting this this way” in the world of ideas and words. 😀
Peter: “de tout mon cœur”
I’ll reply with my school days French and Spanish: Moi aussi. Yo tambien. ❤ 🙂
TC : “To you , my VERY dear lady, I owe my return to the wonderful world of creation and Romanticism. Perhaps you are confused as to how you did that as you probably feel that you w as just exchanging some comms and videos with me. I don’t know how it happen exactly, I just know that it did.”
Marildi : “I’m thrilled if I did that! And I understand how it could happen – I really do.
Peter : Yes , you definitively DID that , and I am glad that you understand how could that happen.
TC : “I am really sorry if I let myself get carried away by my passions, and perhaps unwittingly forced comms on you that you preferred not to have ; and emotions that perhaps you rather not have thrown at you. It wasn’t meant to make you feel uncomfortable. We have never really met , neither know anything about each other , so it was a crazy idea from me to delve in the ideal of it all , and to create this fictional world in my mind. I was only attempting to feel the touch of love again, perhaps misguidedly so like a child.”
Marildi : “Not at all, Peter!! I loved your comms – they were real communication, coming from the heart. Or more literally – from the being. I thoroughly enjoyed the last videos you posted – the ballet, the classical Adagio and Sandro.”
Peter : Thanks! ; I am really happy that you liked my comms , and that you enjoyed the videos.
Marildi : “The second one of Sandro was on a par with Lara!”
Peter : I am glad you liked it! I’ll probably post another one (from another Hispanic artist) for you that is a classic too , filled with incredible feelings. But I don’t want to overwhelm you with so many musical videos and Romanticism. But you are totally to blame for being so wonderful. 🙂 Anyway , whenever you feel like it , just let me know , and I’ll post it.
Marildi : “Thanks for all the translations of lyrics too – poignant!”
Peter : You are most welcome!! I really wanted you to duplicate the poetry in the songs.
Marildi : “It seems that synchronicity is with us, because I’ve experienced the things you’ve been expressing , and not that long ago I started to have some understanding about those things.”
Peter : I kind of like that word , “Synchronicity”. It communicates so much to me at so many levels, and perfectly describes (for me) the strange connection I feel with you. Did you know that I feel it since the very first day that you replied to any of my posts ? I went like , “Umm , this is strange”. I am still in PT wondering what it is.
It really saddens me that I was so frequently an asshole with you as I attempted to Not-is you (and perhaps to even push you away unwittingly and unknowingly for a reason better known to God). I always felt terrible afterwards. I am not a bad person, but I was never that concern whether I had been rude with anyone or not in a blog. But with you , it was different. I hope that I am not making you uncomfortable with my confessions. I just felt the need to tell you how sorry I am. You are just very easy to talk to , and I tend to be very expressive. I don’t like the social veneer.
Marildi : “The non -dual teachers like Adyashanti gave me this understanding. It has to do with our biggest creation – our personal identity as a human being. To call it “ego” might put it in too much of a negative category – unless we have a perspective on the ego that is based on our true identity as spirit.”
Peter : I got you , and I am glad that have found your path to awakenings and enlightenment. I think that the ones that ARE – that are in connection with that true Self (and aware of it) , even if their Egos are getting in the way – are able to PERCEIVE others that ARE as well. Somehow they do, as that’s how I describe my experience with you when I first exchanged comms with you ; I perceived an identity that was aware of being , and I didn’t want LRH or Scn to take that away from you with their fundamentalist approach. But my methods to achieve that were rude and primitive , and even child-like.
Marildi : “The Jamaican master Mo oji, even though he is also a non-dual teacher, says “Duality is not a mistake” and explains that in less than 7 minutes in the video below.”
Peter : Thanks! ; I just watched it. Very interesting indeed. Mo Oji seems like a very easy to talk to individual that even though very awaken , is also willingly connected to reality with ease. Sometimes those Yogi Masters seems enlighten and awaken , but sort of too “serene” , you know ; sort of too “disconnected”. But this one ? He even seems that he can perfectly enjoy partying.
And yes , I very much agree with his viewpoints, and in fact, those viewpoints – specially the one on “Dualism” – are the ones that I’ve always had. “Dualism” for me was a conscious decision of “Awareness Units” to create a Game called existence to make it interesting. Of course , it is all a pretense , but isn’t most things in life ? It is a “pretense” that provides great pleasures and wonderful games. The game of “Diversity” ; what a wonderful game indeed. Art is only possible because of it.
TC : “Anyway , I just wanted to let you know that, and to thank you from the bottom of my heart for having helped me to recover some of the passion and art that I had suppressed all these past years. Perhaps one day we’ll meet in the flesh; perhaps not. I am only very grateful of having met you in the world of ideas and words.”
Marildi : “You telling me I’ve helped you in that way is music to my ears.”
Peter : That was a lovely reply to it. God , you are so easy to be missed.
Marildi : “I trust we’ll keep “meeting this way” in the world of ideas and words. 😀 ”
Peter : We definitively will. :-))
TC : “de tout mon cœur”
Marildi : “I’ll reply with my school days French and Spanish: Moi aussi. Yo tambien. ❤ 🙂 "
Peter : Sweet , ❤ 🙂
Vous êtes toujours dans mes pensées.
Peter: “I kind of like that word, ‘Synchronicity’. It communicates so much to me at so many levels, and perfectly describes (for me) the strange connection I feel with you. Did you know that I feel it since the very first day that you replied to any of my posts? I went like , ‘Umm, this is strange’. I am still in PT wondering what it is.”
No, I didn’t know that. But it’s definitely romantic. 🙂 My idea about this kind of thing is that sometimes we can “perceive” the being and make a connection, even on the via of written words. To paraphrase the famous quote “I never met a man I didn’t like,” one could say “We never meet a being we don’t like.” It’s an intuitive thing, and one way to explain it is with the belief that we are all inherently connected and that we seek to reestablish that connection on a conscious basis, i.e. through spirit presence. You – as a being – often come through as such in your comments, not just on posts directed at me but other posts too.
To me, that type of comm comes from (at least in part) the “higher self” – as opposed to the “lower self,” ego, which has even been described as a kind of software program! Of course, the being who is running the program is also the programmer. Other people either like that program or they don’t, based on their own programming – their ego consciousness. The connection to the being/theta, however, is a matter of theta (spirit) consciousness or presence.
Peter: “I am not a bad person, but I was never that concerned whether I had been rude with anyone or not in a blog. But with you, it was different. I hope that I am not making you uncomfortable with my confessions. I just felt the need to tell you how sorry I am. You are just very easy to talk to, and I tend to be very expressive. I don’t like the social veneer.”
I’m not uncomfortable with your confessions, and no need to be sorry for what you said in the past. I say that because I don’t look at you through ego consciousness; I see you as a being – which is how you often present yourself.
I should make a confession to you too – which is that I think you are pretty good at romantic writing and if I didn’t already have a romantic relationship in my life I might have been swept off my feet. 🙂 A good example of your romantic flair is the way you ended the above comment and then added the roses. This is definitely a way to Venusian hearts. 🙂
I would add that even though both the writer of romance and the reader may have ego-conditioned ideas of what is romantic, to the degree the soul is also influencing the writing it becomes aesthetic and hits “home.” ❤
Peter: "…when I first exchanged comms with you; I perceived an identity that was aware of being, and I didn’t want LRH or Scn to take that away from you with their fundamentalist approach."
That is a lovely compliment, Peter. I perceive that sort of awareness in you too. And it was sweet of you to want to protect me. But not to worry. To explain what I mean by that I'll share another Mooji video with you. Btw, this short video is the first in a whole series of short vids that are extracts taken from longer Mooji videos.By right-clicking on the title, you can get the URL of its youtube page, and over to the right you will see the list of the other titles. If you want, you can look through them to see which ones appeal to you, or else just sample a bit of each.
TC : “I kind of like that word, ‘Synchronicity’. It communicates so much to me at so many levels, and perfectly describes (for me) the strange connection I feel with you. Did you know that I feel it since the very first day that you replied to any of my posts? I went like , ‘Umm, this is strange’. I am still in PT wondering what it is.”
Marildi : “No, I didn’t know that. But it’s definitely romantic. 🙂 ”
Peter : Thanks! 🙂
Marildi : “My idea about this kind of thing is that sometimes we can ‘perceive’ the being and make a connection, even on the via of written words .”
Peter : Yeah , I believe so as well. Isn’t that fascinating ?
Marildi : “To paraphrase the famous quote ‘I never met a man I didn’t l ike,’ one could say ‘We never meet a being we don’t like.’ It’s an intuitive thing, and one way to explain it is with the belief that we are all inherently connected and that we seek to reestablish that connection on a conscious basis, i.e. through spirit presence.”
Peter : Rightly so ; we the ones on a spiritual path have many different ways to connect , perceive, and communicate different than the ways of the body. I have that trait very developed , but it wasn’t till recently that I became fully aware of it.
Marildi : “You – as a being – often come through as such in your comments, not just on posts directed at me but other posts too .”
Peter : Thanks! ; I wasn’t aware of that.
Marildi : “To me, that type of comm comes from (at least in part) the “higher self” – as opposed to the “lower self,” ego, which has even been described as a kind of software program!”
Peter : That’s a very suitable description of the ego , indeed!!! , a “sofware program”. I like that metaphor.
Marildi : “Of course, the being who is running the program is also the programmer.”
Peter : Yeah, but he is frequently in “automatic” , 🙂
Marildi : “Other people either like that program or they don’t, based on their own programming – their ego consciousness. The connection to the being/theta, however, is a matter of theta (spirit) consciousness or presence.”
Peter : You are getting VERY good at understanding these things, indeed!
TC: “I am not a bad person, but I was never that concerned whether I had been rude with anyone or not in a blog. But with you, it was different. I hope that I am not making you uncomfortable with my confessions. I just felt the need to tell you how sorry I am. You are just very easy to talk to, and I tend to be very expressive. I don’t like the social veneer.”
Marildi : “I’m not uncomfortable with your confessions, and no need to be sorry for what you said in the past. I say that because I don’ t look at you through ego consciousness; I see you as a being –which is how you often present yourself.”
Peter : Thanks! , you are really sweet and kind.
Marildi : “I should make a confession to you too – which is that I think you are pretty good at romantic writing and if I didn’t already have a romantic relationship in my life I might have been swept off my feet. 🙂 ”
Peter : Oh girl ; you brought a LOT of tears to my eyes for about an hour. And I assure you that those were not tears coming from any “ego” , but from the very core of my soul. How can one miss someone so much , that we have never met personally ? You were well advised in telling me that ; thank you. But you don’t make it any more easier with that incredible finesse with which you handled it, in which you validate at the same time my efforts , and make me feel that my comms can make a woman feel highly admired as a female. Only an incredible and exceptional woman is capable of such tenderness and kindness. I admire you even more now. I wish that I could express with a poetry all the feelings that this heart holds for you , but I am afraid that I feel morally and ethically obliged now , to respect that gentleman of yours as I would expect the same from him were he in my situation. But he should know that he is a VERY lucky man who have the most wonderful lady of the world.
Marildi : “A good example of your romantic flair is the way you ended the above comment and then added the roses. This is definitely a way to Venusian hearts. 🙂 ”
Peter : Thanks! 🙂
Marildi : “I would add that even though both the writer of romance and the reader may have ego-conditioned ideas of what is romantic, to the degree the soul is also influencing the writing it becomes aesthetic and hits “home.” ❤ "
Peter : Yes, that's one excellent way to describe it , thanks.
TC : "…when I first exchanged comms with you; I perceived an identity that was aware of being, and I didn’t want LRH or Scn to take that away from you with their fundamentalist approach."
Marildi : "That is a lovely compliment, Peter."
Peter : Thanks! 🙂
Marildi : "I perceive that sort of awareness in you too. And it was sweet of you to want to protect me. But not to worry. To explain what I mean by that I'll share another Mooji video with you."
Peter : Great! , I really like his videos.
Marildi : "Btw, this short video is the first in a whole series of short vids that are extracts taken from longer Mooji videos. By right-clicking on the title, you can get the URL of its youtube page, and over to the right you will see the list of the other titles. If you want, you can look through them to see which ones appeal to you, or else just sample a bit of each."
Peter. : Thanks , I'll do just that. And I think that I'll see them all , 1-2 each day.
Peter: “I wish that I could express with a poetry all the feelings that this heart holds for you…”
You express yourself very well. Thanks so much for all the poetic and theta comm. I’ve enjoyed it and appreciated it. 🙂
TC : “I wish that I could express with a poetry all the feelings that this heart holds for you…”
Marildi : “You express yourself very well. Thanks so much for all the poetic and theta comm. I’ve enjoyed it and appreciated it. 🙂
Peter : You are most welcome ; and I am glad that you enjoyed it. I am not trying to get out of the “friend mode” in which I MUST remain in , but you are the most tender and loving woman that I have ever met. ❤ 🙂
TC : “…when I first exchanged comms with you; I perceived an identity that was aware of being, and I didn’t want LRH or Sc n to take that away from you with their fundamentalist approach.”
Marildi : “That is a lovely compliment, Peter. I perceive that sort of awareness in you too. And it was sweet of you to want to protect me. But not to worry. To explain what I mean by that I’ll share a nother Mooji video with you.”
Peter : I wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that lovely and filled with wisdom video , Marildi. It was an INTENSE emotional roller coastering for me watching it. I got to confess that I had not listened to it when you first posted it , but something was sort of “calling” me to the video, and I wanted to close that cycle of action in my universe as I always watch the videos that you post , and more so if you addressed them to me directly. I feel that I owe you to so watch them after you take the time to post them. It feels like acknowledging you even if you are not aware of it.
First I want to say to you – w/out wanting to either overwhelm you or to upset you in any way – that I immensely miss you as a being. This goes way , way beyond any “romantic love” , and actually , it doesn’t even feel like anything like that right this moment. It feels like something pure that has nothing to do with bodies , or with “male/female dichotomies. It is a beautiful closeness that I experience with you, that brings me peace and comfort in a way that I just can’t explain. It would be so great to have you in my life with more frequency. What is this strange and unusual feeling that I feel for you ? How can this be possible ? I feel so connected with you at so many levels , and it isnt anything physical at all , and it isn’t even a woman/man thing. Not anymore , no. It doesn’t have anything to do with ages neither. It is like a connection in the theta world that goes beyond my comprehension. By the way , this all happened hours after I posted the poem “Give me Back my Heart”. I no longer feel like that at ALL. Something changed in my universe with the video.
Would you like to be my friend beyond the world of ideas and words ? There are so many things that I would like to share with you. I only want it if it REALLY appeal to you 100%. Otherwise , I wouldn’t feel at ease with it. I don’t want you to just be “polite” and “diplomatic” about it. I really value the virtue of sincerity. If it doesn’t appeal to you ; I can perfectly have that w/out feeling offended in any way neither hurt at all. I give you my word on that.
Sorry for throwing all this feelings at you like that. You do not need to reply to the above at all if you don’t want to. Just skip it , and that’s quite all right with me.
Enough of that. And now to comment on the video itself ; at 9:32 mins on the video , I hit a grief charge (I actually hit 3 on the whole video). Mooji is telling the story of a participant of one of his master’s speeches , that told this master :
“Sir , I am listening to you , and I trust your words. I am touched by what you have to say, but if I am to be honest in my case ; I am always experiencing suffering”.
And the master replied to him :
“It is not true ; you are not experiencing suffering , you are suffering your experiences”.
Mooji then continue with the video with :
“Suffering is not a thing – that put the power right back with him. How you meet what you see is determined by who you think you are, and the level of wisdom that you’ve gained”.
This is so real for me as I have been in a “suffering mode” a large part of this lifetime. Wanting to become a sponge for all the suffering that I perceive around me , specially from my love ones. I wanted to “absorb” all the suffering myself as I always felt that I was able to take it a LOT better than they could. That I could confront it much , much better. Then once I had “absorbed” it , I would think how to deal with it to rid myself of it. I know that this must sound silly and childish.
When I listened to that part of the video , I just couldn’t avoid the tears at looking at Self back from out of the window of my universe.
Then at 11:47 mins on the video , I hit another grief charge on an example that Mooji brought in to illustrate some concept to the audience. Mooji gives an example of the event of a great devastation , and Angels coming down to help in the situation. He said , referring to the Angels :
“They will not be crying and weeping and …….. (makes the sound of expressions of suffering) terrified. They will be a serenity present , a power and an authority. A calm and inconceivable compassion for the human mind”.
I also hit a big grief charge here, as I’ve identified myself with the above as a beingness that I once had , and that in fact , still possess to varying degrees. But not to that intensity as he described it , as I tend to want to “protect” others from calamities and “sufferings”. But I could “sense” that I had participated in events like those (angels helping out with an incredible calmness of beingness and compassion, but with a sense of command of the situation) at some points in my existence as a being. That’s why I just LOVED the movie “City of Angels” with Nicholas Cage. It sort of “reminded” me of something. I think that I just lost my perspective back then, and wanted to “suck” all the suffering in the world, and just fell to Earth. :-)))
Then the biggest grief charge, and 3rd one (you are making me cry too frequently, you lovely girl ; don’t you know that men aren’t supposed to cry that much ? Jjjj ) , came at 12:43 on the video with this comment :
“We don’t have to overprepare for any calamity , but just be yourself”.
Wow! , he hit the RIGHT INDICATION on my case with such comment. I have always been on a “prevent mode” as regards to my love ones , DESPERATELY trying to “protect” them from suffering , and specially from death. It is so much the case , that I have remained into spaces and unworkable relationships (specially 2D type) , because I felt that “leaving” would just cave them in and send them down towards this immense suffering. I’ve always been a stable datum for most people I’ve known, and they depended on me for advice and guidance . I felt that “leaving” them , would drive them away from me out of ARCxs , putting them into a situation where they might not want my help any longer due to loss. Then I mocked them up suffering w/out my help (and even dying) , and the thought of it has always been just too unbearable for me. As I am writing this , I still feel the grief and sadness of that mock-up.
That’s why I never ever left my 2 former (3 with a GF that I had on staff) 2Ds ; they left me. I would never have had the heart to leave them no matter the incompatibility with our characters. Seeing the mock-up of they crying over the loss , just broke my heart every time. I sill feel that way, and that’s why I fear SO MUCH to have a 2D with anyone again , even if I miss my Twin-flame now so much after you woke up my romanticism again. Why didn’t you just let me remain asleep , girl ? Now I am chasing dreams again full of silly romanticisms. Didn’t you like the “Scientist” and “Scn critic” better ? Jjjjj
At the end if that part of the video , after a grief charge of 10-15 mins , I felt so much more at peace and calm.
And to end this long and BORING! reply of mine , at 15:09 Mooji says :
“Even to imagine ourselves as instruments of the Divine ……. it still requires an apartness. We are loving together, suffering together , living together , dying together , and beyond all of it , together as one”.
The must be the most beautiful quote that I have ever read. So much TRUTH in it. I got to confess to you , that I had always felt this discomfort with the concept of “ONENESS”. I felt that it robbed away my “individuality” , and tended more towards a “compassionate separateness” than towards Oneness as such. But today ? wow, that concept of Oneness really hit home , and touched the very core of my soul . Thanks for the video my very, very, dear and lovely friend. I love you. ❤ 🙂
Wonderful post, Peter!
Earlier this evening, I started to write a reply to your last post, where you had written about your reservations to do with Mooji’s teaching. I could see that my explanations of it had not gotten across very well, and I really wanted you to get it. So I looked through a bunch of his videos to find one that summed up the basics but wasn’t too long, as I wanted to be sure you would watch it. I see not that you’ve already got it and I am happy about that!
Peter: “What is this strange and unusual feeling that I feel for you? How can this be possible? I feel so connected with you at so many levels, and it isn’t anything physical at all, and it isn’t even a woman/man thing. Not anymore, no. It doesn’t have anything to do with ages neither. It is like a connection in the theta world that goes beyond my comprehension.”
It goes beyond my comprehension too, but maybe we should talk about it more on a email exchange. We’ve taken enough advantage of Geir’s liberal hospitality! (Thank you, Geir. 🙂 ) Can you give me your email address again?
Peter: “By the way, this all happened hours after I posted the poem ‘Give me Back my Heart’. I no longer feel like that at ALL. Something changed in my universe with the video.”
I’m very glad to hear that. Although, it was still quite the lyric on unrequited love! 🙂
Peter: “Mooji then continue with the video with: ‘Suffering is not a thing – that put the power right back with him. How you meet what you see is determined by who you think you are, and the level of wisdom that you’ve gained’.”
That part was great. The sentence “How you meet what you see is determined by who you think you are” is actually a succinct summation of his whole teaching. And the last part of the sentence – “…and the level of wisdom that you’ve gained” – explains perfectly why some teachers are better than others and why different teachers appeal to different students.
It’s the reason Mooji as a teacher appeals to so many – he can discern and then match the reality of so many different types of individuals. If you watch more of the videos of his satsangs (“sitting together” meetings), you’ll see what a brilliant master he is of this as he handles all types of situations – including people with grief charges. Great TRs and auditor beingness.
Peter: “I tend to want to ‘protect’ others from calamities and ‘sufferings’. But I could ‘sense’ that I had participated in events like those (angels helping out with an incredible calmness of beingness and compassion, but with a sense of command of the situation) at some points in my existence as a being.”
I’m so pleased that the video really spoke to you – and that in general you resonate with Mooji. Also loved your insights about angels and “prevent mode” and all the rest.
Peter quoting Mooji: “Even to imagine ourselves as instruments of the Divine ……. it still requires an apartness. We are loving together, suffering together, living together, dying together, and beyond all of it, together as one”.
Peter: “That must be the most beautiful quote that I have ever read. So much TRUTH in it. I got to confess to you, that I had always felt this discomfort with the concept of ‘ONENESS’. I felt that it robbed away my ‘individuality’, and tended more towards a ‘compassionate separateness’ than towards Oneness as such. But today? wow, that concept of Oneness really hit home and touched the very core of my soul. Thanks for the video my very, very, dear and lovely friend. I love you. ❤ 🙂
Yes, it's a beautiful quote. In addition to the part about oneness, it shows we can be awakened and still be very much a part of life and livingness.
And you're welcome! I love you too. ❤ 😉
Marildi : “Wonderful post, Peter! ”
Peter : Thank you , Marildi ; most kind.
Marildi : “Earlier this evening, I started to write a reply to your last post, where you had written about your reservations to do with Moo ji’s teaching. I could see that my explanations of it had not gotten across very well, and I really wanted you to get it.”
Peter : Got it ; thanks for the effort.
Marildi : “So I looked through a bunch of his videos to find one that summed up the basics but wasn’t too long, as I wanted to be sure you would watch it.”
Peter : Thanks , I appreciate your efforts. And I always watch your videos no matter if they are long. So never put your attention on that.
Marildi : “I see not that you’ve already got it and I am happy about that!”
Peter : Thanks ; I am happy too! This guy Mooji emanates so much spiritual beauty out of his being ; a very sincere flow. Very genuine.
TC : “What is this strange and unusual feeling that I feel for you? How can this be possible? I feel so connected with you at so many levels, and it isn’t anything physical at all, and it isn’t even a woman/man thing. Not anymore, no. It doesn’t have anything to do with ages neither. It is like a connection in the theta world that goes beyond my comprehension.”
Marildi : “It goes beyond my comprehension too, but maybe we should talk about it more on a email exchange.”
Peter : Agreed. And I feel honored that you accepted my invitation to expand our friendship.
Marildi : “We’ve taken enough advantage of Geir’s liberal hospitality! (Thank you, Geir. 🙂 ) ”
Peter : Yes, we have indeed!!! This thread became sort of a “Marildi/Peter thread” way beyond the OP. My most sincere thanks to Geir as well for his patience and great hospitality. This blog is full of VERY interesting and Spiritually awaken individuals (and VERY smart) , indeed! I just love this blog. It feels so much like home.
Marildi : “Can y ou give me your email address again?”
Peter : Sure , it is my pleasure.
thetaclear68@yahoo.com
TC : “By the way, this all happened hours after I posted the poem ‘Give me Back my Heart’. I no longer feel like that at ALL. Something changed in my universe with the video.”
Marildi : “I’m very glad to hear that. Although, it was still quite the lyric on unrequited love! 🙂 ”
Peter : Thanks! 🙂 , as a matter of fact , I corrected/modified it later on (to improve metric and rhythm) , and it sounds so much better now. Still is about the same subject , I just wasn’t part of it anymore, but an observer. I wanted to keep the general lyric of it and its emotions intact. I’ll show it to you later on.
TC : “Mooji then continue with the video with: ‘Suffering is not a thing – that put the power right back with him. How you meet what you see is determined by who you think you are, and the level of wisdom that you’ve gained’.”
Marildi : “That part was great. The sentence ‘How you meet what you see is determined by who you think you are’ is actually a succinct summation of his whole teaching.”
Peter : Yeah, so I’ve noticed it.
Marildi : “And the last part of the sentence – ‘…and the level of wisdom that you’ve gained’ – explains perfectly why some teachers are better than others and why different teachers appeal to different students.”
Peter : I agree. Mooji feels so much himself, that it is SO relaxing to be near him, even through videos.
Marildi : “It’s the reason Mooji as a teacher appeals to so many – he can discern and then match the reality of so many different types of individuals.”
Peter : Yeah, I’ve noticed EXACTLY the same as you noticed. He can really match the R level as I had not seen before. As a matter of fact , I was thinking in exactly THAT as I watched that video.
Marildi : “If you watch more of the videos of his satsangs (“sitting together” meetings), you’ll see what a brilliant master he is of this as he handles all types of situations – including people with grief charges. Great TRs and auditor beingness.”
Peter : I’ll definitively watch all of his satsangs , but just two of his satsangs that I’ve already seen , have been more than enough to realize the same as you have.
TC : “I tend to want to ‘protect’ others from calamities and ‘sufferings’. But I could ‘sense’ that I had participated in events like those (angels helping out with an incredible calmness of beingness and compassion, but with a sense of command of the situation) at some points in my existence as a being.”
Marildi : “I’m so pleased that the video really spoke to you – and that in general you resonate with Mooji.”
Peter : Thanks ; most kind. And yes , I really resonate with him. I would just LOVE to meet him in person. May be we can go together to one of his satsangs at some time in a future. 🙂
Marildi : “Also loved your insights about angels and “prevent mode” and all the rest.”
Peter : Thanks ; you are always so sweet.
Peter quoting Mooji: “Even to imagine ourselves as instruments of the Divine ……. it still requires an apartness. We are loving together, suffering together, living together, dying together, and beyond all of it, together as one”.
TC : “That must be the most beautiful quote that I have ever read. So much TRUTH in it. I got to confess to you, that I had always felt this discomfort with the concept of ‘ONENESS’. I felt that it robbed away my ‘individuality’, and tended more towards a ‘compassionate separateness’ than towards Oneness as such. But today? wow, that concept of Oneness really hit home and touched the very core of my soul. Thanks for the video my very , very, dear and lovely friend. I love you. ❤ 🙂
Marildi : "Yes, it's a beautiful quote. In addition to the part about oneness, it shows we can be awakened and still be very much a part of life and livingness."
Peter : Yeah , so I realized after watching the video. It surely changed my viewpoints that I had communicated to you earlier on.
Marildi : "And you're welcome! I love you too. ❤ 😉 "
Peter :
:-))
p.s. Typo correction: Last sentence in first paragraph should read – I see NOW that you’ve already got it…
Got it ; thanks!
I wanted to ask you a very personal favor as you are so incredible educated in English. Could you be so kind and inform me about any errors that I made in my English ? I really don’t mind any corrections at all as I am trying to get my command of it to a professional level. I am trying to move myself towards literature and professional translations , and to change from my very boring line of work. So any help in correcting me is very appreciated.
p.s. Most of all, I wanted to also share Mooji’s take on love.
Thanks for the video, Marildi ; I really enjoyed it. You know , I really like that guy Mooji. I’ve never seen any other Yogi Master so in touch with reality ; a VERY down-to-Earth Master indeed!!
Over the last 5-6 years , I came to the same realizations that he expressed in his video. It was a very gruesome road for me as I tended towards attachment , specially as regards to a love partner. As a matter of fact , that type of attachment was responsible for perhaps 85-90% of the whole of my accumulated case in this lifetime (perhaps over many previous lifetimes as well). Oh , my heart have died a thousand times over the loss of a loved one (a love partner). It just bled till I couldn’t pump any more blood into it. I had to get a “mechanical one” to be able to keep on living as I had this bad habit of ripping my heart out of my chest with my bare hands, and placing it into the hands of that love one for her to become its owner. It no longer belonged to me. Unfortunately , they didn’t have the same level of commitment ; the same level of loyalty to those feelings.
And when I realized that I wasn’t loved not even a 20% of what I was capable of loving ; it just destroyed me. It made me feel worthless. But I found that the error wasn’t theirs but mine , as they only could give that much. I am sure that they gave as much as they knew how to give. And that’s enough for me. I am a peace with it now. That’s why I am very good friends with BOTH of my ex-partners even if I still have , sometimes , very strong disagreements with the mother of my beautiful princess. But I can handle that as well, and can have enough tolerance to allow her to change. I know that whatever she does that I find hurting is done out of ignorance and not out of evil. What can I say , humans frequently hold on to very fixed ideas, and it is not easy for them to le go.
I discovered (through hundreds of hrs of Solo-ing) that the damage, the immense loss was really about ME and not about THEM. The heavy key-ins was caused by FAILED HELP, actually, as I felt – and rightly so – that I had failed to make them happy by being out-ethics in my life , mainly at work which brought many economic stress on them. Cheating on them , NEVER EVER. As I said , I gave my heart to them. Even the fact of finding another woman attractive or interesting (not in a sexual way) was enough to feel terrible and full of M/W/Hs. God , I felt so unfaithful just by having those thoughts , and I just withdrew , I individuated. I couldn’t make them happy , Marildi ; I failed them, and it still hurts that I did ; it still hurt , even after all those hours of Solo-ing. I was so stupid, and acted so out-ethics in my life, and I failed them.
The heavy loss, was just a manifestation of trying DESPERATELY to have a chance to AMMEND my errors ; not necessarily to have them back, but to feel that at last I had carried out my hat.
My attachments were caused not by need of love, or the need of company – I’ve been “alone” for 6 years w/out ever having felt alone – they were caused by Failed Help, and by O/Ws, and by absolutely NOTHING else. And so I learned the mechanics of it all REAL well so as to prevent that from ever happening again. On the 2D , I was not able to “Reach and Withdraw” , which is basically what Mooji is trying to say. Attachment = Not being able to Reach and Withdraw , as simple as that. That’s all attachment is.
But I had decided that it was much much better to live the life of a priest , of a monk , to learn how to become non attached to things, specially the need to have a love partner to feel complete. I considered that the life of a priest didn’t have all the complications that the life of a married man has ; the fights, the disagreements , the risk of committing O/Ws, the risk of not living up to the expectations of others , the possibility of not being able to make them happy out of not being able to control areas of one’s life that affect them directly or indirectly.
I understood that having a love partner (I don’t know why people call it a “sexual partner” ? It sounds so materialistic) wasn’t about my need to be loved or to not be alone ; it was about THEM. It was about my responsibility for that being to make VERY sure that having me in her life was something that would make her life better and happier. That my presence in her life contributed to a very large degree to her spiritual growth, her sanity level, her success in life. The 2D became then a F2 (Me to other) manifestation. In other words , it was a BIG responsibility having a 2D. It was not something to toy with.
And because the Law of Flows that says that anything flowing too long in one direction tends to get stuck ; and because I knew that most individuals do not share my views on the 2D (they won’t be able to give back what they receive) ; I felt then that I better had a more pandeterministic view of life, which the life of a priest offers. So I became one. Being a priest always makes one being panderministic to others, and there are no fights, no disagreements, no O/Ws in pandeterminism. I realized that the only pain (loss) I was trying to avoid was the pain of hurting others , which would hurt me as well as their extended Self.
But in making that decision , I killed my 2D , thus killing my creative impulses , my aesthetic and art ; as that originates mainly from the 2D.
But now , thanks to YOU , I recovered back that Romanticism that I had lost due to accumulated losses (in ALL flows) , and the decision to knock off my 2D.
I DO believe, however , that there is such a thing as a “Soulmate” , which is not a “perfect woman” (in my case) , but “perfect” for YOU. They both can have a million of “defects” as individuals, but they are “perfect” for each other. A Soulmate is not a perfect woman who share our same likings ; God forbid that ; how boring indeed. But a Soulmate share a similarity of moral concepts, spiritual concepts, level of ethics, and thought patterns. They act in perfect synchronization because of that. They really do complement each other. They are as one while totally keeping their independence and individuality. They are two wavelengths that are not equal but complementary – two different things. And I just had abandoned hope on that concept. I had decided that it was just an illusion ; a delusion of my creative mind.
Well , I rather live with the hope , and to never find her , than to live a life w/out illusions and dreams. If I get hurt in the way , so be it. Life is like that, full of surprises, with ups and downs, with losses, with pain. The virtue does not lie in trying to avoid pain, but in being willing to live life to the fullest ; in being willing to cry , to have out hearts broken from time to time. I rather love and lose than to never love again. Just having the idea of a Soulmate gives me Romanticism, illusions and art. And I can always sublimate it all to creative thought rather than to human relationships. But the 2D must remain alive, partner or not, just to keep art alive, to always stay in love with existence.
It is so beautiful to love ; to wake up and find those lovely eyes looking at you. To be able to bring a genuine smile out of her. To travel for hours just to get that special candy or fruit she likes so much, and watching her face glow with happiness while she find it on the table. But not to do it so one get praised or hugged or admired. But to do it just to be able to experience that great moment when that being that one loves more than one’s own life, smile at feeling loved, at feeling important. That smile is a million times more sensual and erotic than a petty sexual act. That smile is worth all the effort spent to bring it about.
How wonderful is to just to hug her, to have her in my arms , where our skins becomes just one, where heat flows through each body finding a perfect balance. What a lovely and tender feeling that is. A simply hug that stop time into this immense peace and beauty. Oh, the odor of her skin with that smell of roses ; with that gentle and tender feeling. Her lovely hair getting into my face like trying to play with me, to caress me.
Her gentle hands that feel like the touch of an angel. When I hold them , I connect with eternity , and they bring me peace and comfort. Her eyes ; oh her beautiful eyes that reflect my soul in them, and hypnotize me into the most beautiful sleep of all. A sleep I never want to wake up from. Those lovely eyes light my path in life. Those eyes speak of tenderness, they speak a thousand languages w/out saying one word. Her face ; her beautiful face of an angel that no artist can possibly paint as there are no human ways to express so much beauty in physical forms. How does one draw theta itself ? That face is the most beautiful canvas that I find everyday besides me when I wake up every day. And like any masterpiece, it inspire my day each day and forever so.
That’s what a 2D is for me , Marildi. A work of art in itself if the right person is besides me. No unwilling attachments of any kind ; no obsessions or compulsions ; no fixations ; no problem in being able to Reach and Withdraw ; but just the DECISION to love and share a life together.
Take care, my beautiful rose.
Peter
Well, Peter, after reading the article about the signs of spiritual awakening, I see your post above in a whole new light! It’s so good that you came across that article. Synchronicity once again, eh? 🙂
In the article, awakening was described as waking up from “robot mode.” I think “robot mode” the same phenomenon as what Adyashanti and Mooji refer to as ego-consciousness or ego-identity. And to quote Mooji:
“Don’t let the mind set the stage for your life, because it will always be a limitation.”
I’m happy that you like Mooji too. As you say, he is very down-to-earth – and yet he has such wisdom that it can be intuited by anyone listening to him
Peter: “Over the last 5-6 years, I came to the same realizations that he expressed in his video. It was a very gruesome road for me as I tended towards attachment, especially as regards a love partner. As a matter of fact, that type of attachment was responsible for perhaps 85-90% of the whole of my accumulated case in this lifetime (perhaps over many previous lifetimes as well).”
I wasn’t sure at first what Mooji meant by “attachment,” but now I understand it to mean attached to or clinging to the ego-identity. People are almost literally “attached” to the ego-mind in that they identify with it – i.e. you are it and it is you. I don’t think this is the same concept as being attached to a person the way we usually mean it – unless, of course, the attachment to the person is in fact an outcome of ego-identity, which can happen.
Obviously, LRH also talked about stimulus-response “attachment” in DMSMH and called it “reactive-mind love.” The “love” that results from ego-identity is also stimulus-response. although it isn’t necessarily based on pain and unconsciousness, per my understanding. This is why I think the tech should have included specific handlings for the ego-mind. However, I guess it’s possible that even the creation of ego ultimately goes back to pain and unconsciousness, but even so, it should be handled well before the handling incidents that would probably be very early track.
Incidentally, here’s a line in DMSMH, in the section on reactive-mind marriage, where LRH says that if you process a couple that is having marital trouble, you’ll almost always find that “Beneath the dirty cloth of aberration, they loved each other well.” That’s one of my all-time favorite LRH quotes. 🙂
Marildi : “Well, Peter, after reading the article about the signs of spiritual awakening, I see your post above in a whole new light! It’s so good that you came across that article. Synchronicity once again , eh? 🙂 ”
Peter : Yeah, it was great indeed to had came across it. And yes , “Synchronicity once again”. 🙂
Marildi : “In the article, awakening was described as waking up from ‘robot mode.’ I think ‘robot mode’ the same phenomenon as what Adyashanti and Mooji refer to as ego-consciousness or ego-identity. And to quote Mooji:
“Don’t let the mind set the stage for your life, because it will always be a limitation.”
Peter : Great quote! , and yes , I feel it is the same phenomena as well. I see “Ego-identity” as an “Automaticity” that takes over the place of the real Self, and thus this “Robot-mode” manifestation. “Ego-identity” for me is the whole of a “Valence Package” which is a specific “computer” program that respond exactly the same way to the same inputs (stimulus) , and thus its “robotic” characteristics.
Marildi : “I’m happy that you like Mooji too. As you say, he is very down-to-earth – and yet he has such wisdom that it can be intuited by anyone listening to him.”
Peter : Yes , it can intuited indeed! ; I actually feel better and more at peace every time I listen to him.
[You know, the most strange phenomena just happened to me right now at around 4:12am (time in Puerto Rico) as I was replying to you. Did something happened in your space or your universe around that time in your time zone ? ]
TC : “Over the last 5-6 years, I came to the same realizations that he expressed in his video. It was a very gruesome road for me as I tended towards attachment, especially as regards a love partner. As a matter of fact, that type of attachment was responsible for perhaps 85-90% of the whole of my accumulated case in this lifetime (perhaps over many previous lifetimes as well).”
Marildi : “I wasn’t sure at first what Mooji meant by ‘attachment,’ but now I understand it to mean attached to or clinging to the ego-identity. People are almost literally ‘attached’ to the ego-mind in that they identify with it – i.e. you are it and it is you.”
Peter : That’s the way I understood it as well. Theta or the Spirit doesn’t feel “attached” as such, because he can BE, “Ego-identities” can’t as they are being mostly in a compulsive “Being” (either “trying to be” , or “trying not to be”) , or a compulsive “Becomingness”. I think that Mooji referred mostly to “compulsive attachments” triggered by obsessive need = “Can’t really have”.
Marildi : “I don’t think this is the same concept as being attached to a person the way we usually mean it – unless, of course, the attachment to the person is in fact an outcome of ego-identity, which can happen.”
Peter : Actually , I think that it happens with lot of frequency. And yes, as I said above , I feel he was referring to “compulsive or obsessive attachments” , and not to emotional attachments as are usually understood by people
Marildi : “Obviously, LRH also talked about stimulus-response ‘attachment’ in DMSMH and called it ‘reactive-mind love.’ The ‘love’ that results from ego-identity is also stimulus-response , although i t isn’t necessarily based on pain and unconsciousness, per my understanding.”
Peter : I believe so as well. It is similar to a GPM package of identities and dramatized goals which are not necessarily based on pain and unconsciousness , but mostly based on postulates which remains hidden from view.
Marildi : “This is why I think the tech should have included specific handlings for the ego-mind.”
Peter : I feel that Actual Goals GPM handlings was the closest the LRH got to that. It was too complex , though. But it could be resurrected and modified as needed.
Marildi : “However, I guess it’s possible that even the creation of ego ultimately goes back to pain and unconsciousness…”
Peter : I feel that PN and unconsciousness are too late in the chain as items. I feel that Ego(s) are theta-created automacities and packages of GPMs. What do you feel ?
Marildi : “….but even so, it should be handled well before the handling incidents that would probably be very early track.”
Peter : Yes , I feel the same. That’s why GPM handling went from PT to the past ; an arrow back in time. Charge was bled from late GPMs (from PT) to early GPMs (away from PT). Incident-oriented therapy don’t emphasize lateness on the chain , but its earliest part.
Marildi : “Incidentally, here’s a line in DMSMH, in the section on reactive-mind marriage, where LRH says that if you process a couple that is having marital trouble, you’ll almost always find that ‘Beneath the dirty cloth of aberration, they loved each other well.’ That’s one of my all-time favorite LRH quotes. 🙂
Peter : Yeah , theta attract theta to itself. Hate and other misemotions can’t exist w/out love as the “basic” on the chain. That’s why processing the couple brings to the surface the underlying love.
I feel that I could talk to you all day w/out stopping. Take care.
Peter: “I feel that Actual Goals GPM handlings was the closest the LRH got to that. It was too complex, though. But it could be resurrected and modified as needed…I feel that Ego(s) are theta-created automacities and packages of GPMs. What do you feel?”
I agree with what you say. However, I feel that running Actual Goals/GPMs is always going to be far more complex than the simple methods of teachers like Adyashanti and Mooji. Those methods can be applied in daily life on almost continuous basis. It could even be seen as a way of life.
To start with, the seeker has to fully grasp what is meant by the ego and know that everything in the mind that one identifies with, one can simply choose to cease the identification. This would include all the things that are desired as well as all the things that are resisted. Doing this will basically run these things out as they will gradually dissipate and then disappear with respect to their influence, because the individual is no longer giving them any power. Gains are made steadily as this is a “process” that can be run more or less continuously in life – and should be fairly easy to do for any Scientologist who has passed TR-0.
According to some nondual teachers, at a certain point in this process, the energy that the ego is made up of can simply collapse as an entity, and the person will be completely free from it. One teacher (Tony Parsons), says there can even be a literal explosion! I think they all agree that a point comes when the person is cause over this entity, whether or not it has completely disappeared. LRH said something along those lines in 8-80:
——————————–
“Thought can pervade an area or approximate a situation and know. The mind thinks with light facsimiles, or no facsimiles at all.
“Thus there is a compulsion early on the track to have facsimiles. Then, as one ceases to “know”, one is at length no longer in control of his facsimiles but is their victim. Given enough facsimiles, a man dies; a theta being decays until it can’t even be a Man.
“How, then, does one strip away facsimiles from the present time of the preclear? The auditor would have to audit billions of them to erase all the facsimiles the preclcar has made or “borrowed” and which now act heavily upon him, giving him illness, degradation and aberration—as well as amnesia as to his actual past.
“We can rehabilitate the preclear by raising his ability to create energy, and thus bring him to a ‘speed’ which has sufficient output for him to overcome facsimiles. We do this by erasing or reducing certain facsimiles, and, in doing so, RETRAIN our preclear to produce a higher energy potential.” (Scn 8-80)
———————————–
In the last sentence, the emphasis in caps on the word RETRAIN was mine, because I think the method I’ve described (hopefully correctly) actually RETRAINS an individual, and as a result a “higher energy potential” is produced. That higher potential is a byproduct of no longer investing energy in either desiring or resisting the items that make up the ego-mind. This all aligns with Scientology principles, from what I can see. Would you agree?
TC : “I feel that Actual Goals GPM handlings was the closest that LRH got to that. It was too complex, though. But it could be resurrected and modified as needed…I feel that Ego(s) are theta-created automacities and packages of GPMs. What do you feel?”
Marildi : “I agree with what you say. However, I feel that running Actual Goals/GPMs is always going to be far more complex than the simple methods of teachers like Adyashanti and Mooji. Those methods can be applied in daily life on almost continuous basis. It could even be seen as a way of life.”
Peter : I agree with the advantages of the method (Ayashanti’s) , and that it is actually a way of life. I can relate myself more to those teachings due to my priest-like view of existence. And yes , those methods frequently are far less complex for already enlighten individuals such as you . Remember, that you have a solid background on what Spiritual Awakening is all about , or at least on what it might look like. Scientologists who really got the materials , and who have already rid themselves of the cultic aspects, are at a great advantage over the uninitiated. Therefore , we might lose perspective , to some degree , of the R level that others have regarding this issue of Spiritual Awakening.
I feel that BOTH methods can complement each other. It is empirically and intuitively true that humans are frequently involved in conflicting dichotomies resulting from two opposing Ego-identities. Cogniting on what those exact identities are , and on how exactly they interact with each other, might not be easy with the Adyashanti method in all cases. Some charge might be needed to be bled first from the conflict , for the person to become aware that there is even a conflict in the first place. Then , other methods might come in to do a better job, or to establish a higher pattern of conduct and viewpoints towards that specific area of life.
Marildi : “To start with, the seeker has to fully grasp what is meant by the ego and know that everything in the mind that one identifies with, one can simply choose to cease the identification.”
Peter : Yeah, but that’s more easy said than done , believe me. I’ve been there myself. You are looking through the eyes of a very spiritual advance being as I sense you are , and one who with a solid background . You already knew about valences and dichotomies with a conceptual understanding of it. For most people , those concepts are as strange as they can be. We are already awaken individuals trying to find a better path to Spiritual Enlightenment.
Marildi : “This would include all the things that are desired as well as all the things that are resisted.”
Peter : I see your point ; however , not everything that is desired have a compulsive or obsessive connotation to it. Even LRH sort of criticized the “Need for sensation (desire) ” in his PDC lectures. To desire or “need” sensations is only aberrative when it is obsessive or compulsive.
Marildi : “Doing this will basically run these things out as they will gradually dissipate and then disappear with respect to their influence, because the individual is no longer giving them any power.”
Peter : True enough. But some of those identifications might not be sweepingly realized w/out some sort of inspection at two conflicting Ego-identities (two GPM items , Term-Oppterm) , with a GPM type of procedure like ClearBird developed based on the theory behind R2-12.
http://completeyourbridge.org/
http://ability1group.eu/
In my personal case , I have a situation that does not easily resolve just with the knowledge of the Ayashanti’s kind of methods , as it is just too rooted and uninspected. I feel I am going to need an actual procedure to first be able to LOCATE the Ego-identities in conflict (which is not always easy to do) , to then apply whatever it might need to be applied to it to resolve it , like the truths of Ayashanti.
Marildi : “Gains are made steadily as this is a “process” that can be run more or less continuously in life – and should be fairly easy to do for any Scientologist who has passed TR-0.”
Peter : I am afraid that I can’t agree with you on that being any easy for TR-0 passed Scientologists. As I said before , you are different. I don’t feel that you are totally conscious of your VERY high awareness level. You see , you get thrilled by knowledge ; you go down to the library to pick that book (whatever book) that you have been waiting for , with the rush feeling of adventure that runs through your veins. And then you sit at your desk or lie at your bed and just DEVOUR it as the most delicious food of all. Most people are not like that , Marildi. Most people are in a profound sleep state , the “Robot mode” that the article talks about. Ayashanti , as simply as it might appear and that it actually IS ; is for already awaken individuals who already possesses a very high degree of awareness.
Marildi : “According to some nondual teachers, at a certain point in this process, the energy that the ego is made up of can simply collapse as an entity, and the person will be completely free from it.”
Peter : I don’t feel too hopeful with that assertion for unaware individuals. For the aware ones , yes.
Marildi : “One teacher (Tony Parsons), says there can even be a literal explosion! I think they all agree that a point comes when the person is cause over this entity, whether or not it has completely disappeared.”
Peter : Sounds reasonable enough. Any method that get the individual to TOTALLY view “As-is” , would make the identity “collapse” over itself. The key word is “TOTALLY”.
Marildi : :LRH said something along those lines in 8-80:
——————————–“Thought can pervade an area or approximate a situation and know. The mind thinks with light facsimiles, or no facsimiles at all.”
“Thus there is a compulsion early on the track to have facsimiles. Then, as one ceases to “know”, one is at length no longer in control of his facsimiles but is their victim. Given enough facsimiles, a man dies; a theta being decays until it can’t even be a Man.”
“How, then, does one strip away facsimiles from the present time of the preclear? The auditor would have to audit billions of them to erase all the facsimiles the preclear has made or “borrowed” and which now act heavily upon him, giving him illness, degradation and aberration—as well as amnesia as to his actual past.”
“We can rehabilitate the preclear by raising his ability to create energy, and thus bring him to a ‘speed’ which has sufficient output for him to overcome facsimiles. We do this by erasing or reducing certain facsimiles, and, in doing so, RETRAIN our preclear to produce a higher energy potential.” (Scn 8-80) ———————————–
Peter : Great quote , thanks! That’s Technique 80 ; the one highest on the scale.
Marildi : “In the last sentence, the emphasis in caps on the word RETRAIN was mine, because I think the method I’ve described (hopefully correctly) actually RETRAINS an individual, and as a result a “higher energy potential” is produced.”
Peter : I fully agree on that provided that the individual already possesses a very high level of awareness to begin with.
Marildi : “That higher potential is a byproduct of no longer investing energy in either desiring or resisting the items that make up the ego-mind. This all aligns with Scientology principles, from what I can see. Would you agree?”
Peter : Yes , I DO agree with it. One point to be watchful about though , is the one about identifying all desires as entrapping. Otherwise , existence can become “Serene” and “Peaceful” , but lacking adventure and passions. Not a state of being that appeal to me at all at this point in my life. I want to experience life to the fullest.
Peter, I wrote part of this reply before I saw your last post after you watched the Mooji video, so some of what I write here may no longer apply as I think you now have a different take on his teaching. But here it is, for what it’s worth.
Peter: “It is empirically and intuitively true that humans are frequently involved in conflicting dichotomies resulting from two opposing Ego-identities. Cogniting on what those exact identities are, and on how exactly they interact with each other, might not be easy with the Adyashanti method in all cases.”
Actually, a person doesn’t need to cognite on the dichotomies of identities as whole packages. The gradient is cut way back with Adyashanti’s and Mooji’s teachings. The person only needs certain understandings on which to operate: first and foremost, that reactions, attitudes, beliefs, opinions, likes, dislikes, etc. – i.e. all the things that one identifies with and that make up the personality (the ego) – are not inherent to the true self, the being, but are literally derived from conditioning.
The other thing that needs to be understood is that all these things, since they are conditioned, are the very things that get in the way of self-determinism and the freedom of the being – unless the individual learns to spot them and cease identification with them. This takes some practice, just as it takes practice to learn the skill of TR-0 – to simply be there and confront. To be there obviously means to neither be attached to nor resist a reaction or consideration that pops up; and by confronting it, some distance is placed between it and the individual. Here’s an LRH quote that actually supports this principle (my caps for emphasis):
————————–
“[There] is a mechanism interposed in the cycle of stimulus-response restimulation which demonstrates that:
“WHEREAS SURFACE OBSERVATION SAYS THAT RESTIMULATION CAN OCCUR, DEEPER STUDY SHOWS THAT AN INTERIM STEP OF SELF-DETERMINISM IS NECESSARY FOR ANY RESTIMULATION TO TAKE PLACE.
“Man is so aberrated at this date that it took considerable processing to discover this interim factor. And to discover that the interim factor is far more important than the mechanism of restimulation and that restimulation ceases by picking up the inner postulate between a source of restimulation and being restimulated.”
“The extent of free choice is remarkable. The amount a case can be improved by self-determinism processing is even more remarkable.” (Advanced Procedure and Axioms)
——————————
To my understanding, the crucial difference between the nondual teachings and Scientology (or Clearbird) is that the goal of the latter is to play a better game, and the goal of nondual teachings is to transcend the game even while playing it.
All that said, I would agree with you that some individuals in particular might need or at least would benefit from combining auditing with this other method, so as to get enough charge off the case to be up to doing it.
Last but not least is the video pick of the day – under 7 minutes. It’s on the subject you mentioned – desires – titled “I want!”
Marildi : “Peter, I wrote part of this reply before I saw your last post after you watched the Mooji video, so some of what I write here may no longer apply as I think you now have a different take on his teaching. But here it is, for what it’s worth.”
Peter : Got it ; thanks!
TC : “It is empirically and intuitively true that humans are frequently involved in conflicting dichotomies resulting from two opposing Ego-identities. Cogniting on what those exact identities are, and on how exactly they interact with each other, might not be easy with the Adyashanti method in all cases.”
Marildi : “Actually, a person doesn’t need to cognite on the dichotomies of identities as whole packages. The gradient is cut way back with Adyashanti’s and Mooji’s teachings. The person only needs certain understandings on which to operate: first and foremost, that reactions, attitudes, beliefs, opinions, likes, dislikes, etc. – i .e. all the things that one identifies with and that make up the personality (the ego) – are not inherent to the true self, the being, but are literally derived from conditioning.”
Peter : Got it ; thanks. How does the individual arrives at such an understanding with Ayashanti’s and/or Mooji’s teachings/methods ? Is there a “procedure” as such ?
Marildi : “The other thing that needs to be understood is that all these things, since they are conditioned, are the very things that get in the way of self-determinism and the freedom of the being –unless the individual learns to spot them and cease identification with them. This takes some practice, just as it takes practice to learn the skill of TR-0 – to simply be there and confront.”
Peter : Ok , I am following you so far.
Marildi : “To be there obviously means to neither be attached to nor resist a reaction or consideration that pops up; and by confronting it, some distance is placed between it and the individual.”
Peter : Ok. How does the individual confront it ? Specially the ones who are not aware ?
Marildi : “Here’s an LRH quote that actually supports this principle (my caps for emphasis):
————————–“[There] is a mechanism interposed in the cycle of stimulus-response restimulation which demonstrates that:
“WHEREAS SURFACE OBSERVATION SAYS THAT RESTIMULATION CAN OCCUR, DEEPER STUDY SHOWS THAT AN INTERIM STEP OF SELF-DETERMINISM IS NECESSARY FOR ANY RESTIMULATION TO TAKE PLACE.
“Man is so aberrated at this date that it took considerable processing to discover this interim factor. And to discover that the interim factor is far more important than the mechanism of restimulation and that restimulation ceases by picking up the inner postulate between a source of restimulation and being restimulated.”
“The extent of free choice is remarkable. The amount a case can be improved by self-determinism processing is even more remarkable.” (Advanced Procedure and Axioms) ——————————
Peter : Damn , Marildi , that’s an excellent quote indeed!!! I had read it , but just perhaps 1-2x , a few decades ago , and it seems that I didn’t achieve full conceptual understanding of it , otherwise I would not have forgotten about it as I did. I never forget about what I read once I got it.
Marildi : “To my understanding, the crucial difference between the nondual teachings and Scientology (or Clearbird) is that the goal of the latter is to play a better game, and the goal of nondual teachings is to transcend the game even while playing it.”
Peter : You are getting VERY good at understanding these principles , Marildi. Nondual teachings is way beyond Solo-NOTs , in terms of understanding life.
Marildi : “All that said, I would agree with you that some individuals in particular might need or at least would benefit from combining auditing with this other method, so as to get enough charge off the case to be up to doing it.”
Peter : My same thoughts exactly, and the ones that I had discussed before. As I had told you , your are an INCREDIBLE aware individual. Most are not that lucky.
Marildi : “Last but not least is the video pick of the day – under 7 minute s. It’s on the subject you mentioned – desires – titled “I want!” ”
Peter : Thanks ; I am already very interested by the title itself. I’ll let you know my thoughts on it after I had watched it. It’ll be tomorrow , though, as It is already 4:20am here, and I need to go to sleep to go visit my beautiful and lovely mother tomorrow.
Take care. We’ll continue tomorrow.
Peter: “How does the individual arrive at such an understanding with Ayashanti’s and/or Mooji’s teachings/methods? Is there a ‘procedure’ as such?”
Yes, they both have procedures to follow. Adyashanti does three talks about his teachings. The first is on basic principles. (I’ve posted two parts of that one.) Another one is on application and a third on what he calls orientation. Here’s the link to all three on his website: http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index.php?file=video
And this is the the one on application, which is also posted on youtube:
TC : “How does the individual arrive at such an understanding with Ayashanti’s and/or Mooji’s teachings/methods? Is there a ‘procedure’ as such?”
Marildi : “Yes, they both have procedures to follow. Adyashanti does three talks about his teachings. The first is on basic principles. (I’ve posted two parts of that one.) Another one is on application and a third on what he calls orientation. Here’s the link to all three on his website: http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index .php?file=video ”
Peter : Thanks , Marildi ; I really appreciate a lot you taking the effort and time to find and post these videos.
Marildi : “And this is the the one on application, which is also posted on youtube:”
Peter : Wow! , what an incredible and so insightful video indeed! ; thank you. ❤ 🙂
Adyashanti is so full of wisdom and an inner peace that really communicates. I've only watched half of the 42 mins video so far , and have already been impressed and touched by several of its portions. Caps are mind to emphasize.
At 4:44 , he says , :
"Ego is just something that is created in the mind ; it is a PATTERN of thinking."
I got to confess that I had not fully grasped the concept of "Ego" before watching this video. It is basically the compositive valences (Terms/Oppterm) that we have assumed throughout our whole existence. Then at 5:03 he says :
"The Ego is basically REPETITIVE patterns of thinking. So in that sense , is NOISE – it is just internal MENTAL NOISE."
Wow! , that's EXACTLY what Ego feels like : a LOT of unnecessary mental noise. At 5:17 he says :
"Stillness is a quality of your essential nature. Allow everything to be as it is. "
Then at 9:19 he says :
"To allow everything to be as it is , is not a goal – it is not an end – it is a FOUNDATION. It is a foundation from which true and wise actions take place".
Then at 9:56 he says :
"As long as you are struggling with what it is ; with this moment ; with what arises in this moment . As long as you have battles with what it is ; you can never go beyond the state of Ego consciousness".
You know, this is very similar with Scientology's concept of "Confront" : The willingness to just be there comfortably perceiving. I cognite now that that is the reason why OT TR 0 and TR 0 are so beneficial. They are actually meditation in itself !!! It is "acquiring" (actually "finding" ) what Ayashanti calls "Stillness" , it is being still.
All of this (the first application of his teachings) also relates to Scn's concept , "What you resist persist". A GREAT method to achieve (find) this "STILLNESS" is LRH's "10 Mins of Nothingness" which was part of the procedure called, "Six Steps for Better Beingness" to be found at PAB 7. I did several hours of that process like 7-8 years ago, and it helped me a lot. My God, it was so, so, so difficult to do, to maintain .To just sit still and do nothing, think nothing, perceive nothing, create nothing ; Just a pure "NOTHINGNESS". After a few hours I was only able to maintain just no more than perhaps 2-3 mins of nothingness at the time. It was THAT difficult to me. I had even decided that such an apparent simple and silly process , had more ramifications and truth to it than I thought at the time. So I had planned to do it again at some near future , but just forgot about it all. It seems that I missed that synchronicity at the time. Here is some quote from PAN 7 :
"Take Ten Minutes of Nothing. This technique means oh, so literally what it says. It isn’t ten minutes of 'relaxation' or 'relief' or 'rest.' It isn’t ten minutes of you, a body. It isn’t ten minutes of somatics. It means ten minutes of no body, no engrams, no walls, no MEST universe, no sound, no thought, really nothing. All one’s life he is trying to get, to work, to be, to perceive SOMETHING. Now for ten minutes let us have utterly NOTHING. The gettingness of something makes a one-way flow. Also the dwindling spiral. Also, the one thing the analytical mind cannot be, it thinks, yet all it is is nothing, is in MEST terms: nothing. Mind you, fear of NOTHING is enough to make one’s stomach curl for nothing is death itself. This is unlimited in running time. It always improves a case in the long run if not instantly, as it often does. The preclear discovers sooner or later he CAN be nothing, that he doesn’t have to strive to be. What a relief! Lao-tse was so right about striving."
I had more cognitions/revelations with the video, but I don't want to say them all at once to just have an EXCUSE to have more communications with you as I know how much you are interested in this topic. :-)))
Thanks for the video on “I Want” from Mooji , Marildi. I always enjoy him talking. I got to admit , though , that I’ve always had disagreements with this particular viewpoint from Non-Dualists , since I’ve know that datum (which I know it since several years ago). If by “want” he also mean “dreams , desires , purposes” , then I must say that that viewpoint does not appeal to me at all. As a matter of fact , it is that EXACT viewpoint that rendered Non-Dualism as uninteresting for me to begin with , many years ago. For me a spirit is in the Game of Life to begin with , for the purpose of “Sensations”. That’s what a spirit loves. Those sensations translate for me as desires ( wants ) for beauty , art , friendship, closeness , love , affinity , communication , company , books , knowledge , music , being in a job you love , the need to create , etc, etc. For me , that’s what life is all about ; “The Spirit of Play” , the adventures , the sensations.
Now , when desires/wants becomes obsessive or compulsive , then the “Must have- can’t have” of it all is the thing that traps , and brings in misery ; but not the desire/want itself. I don’t feel that Mooji makes this clarification on this particular video. Perhaps he has other videos in which he expand more on this subject. But just as expressed on this particular one , feels even leading towards a dull existence , as I always felt that non-dualism might leads to if a false “Senior datum” (an arbitrary) enters the scene. That particular concept from non-dualism , has always been unreal and non appealing to me. Today, even after listening to Mooji , it still is.
Peter: “Now, when desires/wants becomes obsessive or compulsive, then the ‘Must have- can’t have’ of it all is the thing that traps and brings in misery; but not the desire/want itself. I don’t feel that Mooji makes this clarification on this particular video. Perhaps he has other videos in which he expand more on this subject.
I think you described the difference pretty well, because that’s essentially what ego desires are, obsessive or compulsive – which is another way of saying they are conditioned.
In the Adyashanti’s video on basic principles part 4 (posted above), he says that when you become conscious of your true self as spirit and of the inherent values of spirit, you will naturally operate on those. For example, one of those values is love, and I think if you watch the Mooji video on love again (also posted above) with your question in mind, it will probably clarify this point for you. Also, in one of Mooji’s videos (maybe that one, I don’t remember for sure) he says the awakened person is “beautifully content.” So I don’t think you have to be concerned that life would be “boring.” 🙂
TC : ———-Thanks for the video on “I Want” from Mooji , Marildi. I always enjoy him talking. I got to admit , though , that I’ve always had disagreements with this particular view point from Non-Dualists , since I’ve know that datum (which I know it since several years ago). If by “want” he also mean “dreams […] ———-
TC : “Now, when desires/wants becomes obsessive or compulsive, then the ‘Mus t have- can’t have’ of it all is the thing that traps and brings in misery; but not the d desire/want itself. I don’t feel that Mooji makes this clarification on this particular video . Perhaps he has other videos in which he expand more on this subject.”
Marildi : “I think you described the difference pretty well, because that’s essentially what ego desires are, obsessive or compulsive – which is another way of saying they are conditioned.”
Peter : Ok , we see it the same way , so it seems.
Marildi : “In the Adyashanti’s video on basic principles part 4 (posted above), he says that when you become conscious of your true self as spirit and of the inherent values of spirit, you will naturally operate on those. For example, one of those values is love, and I think if you watch the Mooji video on love again (also posted above) with your question in mind, it will probably clarify this point for you.”
Peter : Thanks ; I’ve watched it again , and it was very insightful . It did clarified a few things to me , but I STILL feel kind of stuck on “wanting” ; still feel “attachments” (desires) that I don’t know if they come form my Ego or my inner Self. I am really confuse about that. You see , I met someone that I can’t stop missing. She fill all my thoughts. Her very essence got mixed with mine , and I don’t know now how to “filter” her out of my being , because I don’t even know now what part is mine and what part is hers and the parts look alike so much.
Mooji talks in his video on “Love” about love partners being able to offer each other “insight , strength and clarity” , and that such a relationship is good at helping one to contact that inner Self. Well, she has done that for me ; she has offered me more insight , clarity, than most people I know. She has woke up in me the sense of beauty in life again. The great love for art and aesthetics that I had lost.
She helped me to find myself again, driving me away from petty conflicts about LRH/Scn. She has taught me humility, tolerance and kindness towards others. I feel her in my heart throughout the day and my thoughts are filled with her , as with her I feel “At Home ; I feel this great calmness.
But I can’t stop missing her now. I want to give her so much of me. I feel attached to her. But just a few weeks ago I didn’t exactly feel “attached” to anyone , except to my daughter. I could control pretty much what thoughts occupied my mind. I wasn’t in “missing mode” , you know.
Is this a manifestation of my Ego-identities ? Should I just do something to empty up my mind of her ? Is missing her just a manifestation of my Ego-identities ? I would like to go back to my old very independent self, where nothing was missed ; where there was only my books , my daughter and the trill of discovering. I wasn’t in this expectation , in this waitingness to communicate with any terminal. With myself it was more than enough. I want that feeling back. I felt secure then ; unattached.
Those are the videos I need now , Marildi. The ones that can bring me back my emotional independence ; my empty mind. The ones that show me how to stop missing ; how to forget about silly romanticisms , desires and wants. I want my Self back. I am very upset as I feel very vulnerable now. I can’t have both , art/aesthetic and vulnerability. I rather leave poetry alone ; I rather leave romanticism alone, as that way I doesn’t need to wake up with my mind filled with thoughts of her. I want my freedom back. So please, post those videos that show me how to do it cause you know them better than I do.
Marildi : “Also, in one of Mooji’ s videos (maybe that one, I don’t remember for sure) he says the awakened person is “beautifully content.” So I don’t think you have to be concerned that life would be “boring.” 🙂 ”
Peter : Got it ; thanks. I watched two of Mooji’s videos last night , and I found them a great help in understanding a few things. Mooji is just so fun. I laughed a lot last night. One video was on “Searching for a life partner” , and the other was on the concept of “Having to have a purpose”. Great videos indeed!
I’ll watch Ayashanti’s later on during the day. This new path is beginning to feel so intuitively right. I feel like I am on my way HOME , finally. This all happened because of you and the synchronicity that surround us ; THANK YOU!!!
Wow, Peter. This has to be one of your best pieces of writing ever. No doubt there was a huge component of soul in it!
Something “similar” (but in another way doesn’t compare) to what you wrote about was an experience I had one time when I was getting some auditing. I “fell in love” with my auditor. It hit me by surprise because of how suddenly it happened – and because prior to that I hadn’t even found this man to be attractive! But aside from that, I somehow knew my feelings weren’t real, even though they were pretty strong.
I also knew that I would be wasting my auditing hours because of not being “in session” – that is, not interested in case. This was at Flag and the auditing rates were pretty high, but I still put off saying anything to anybody about what was going on. I wanted to hold on to that wonderful feeling for a while. It was a “desire” I just didn’t want to give up.
After a couple more sessions, I finally said something to someone and got a new auditor. She flew 6 ruds on me – and that was it. The whole “thing” was GONE in the space of a very short session. I was totally amazed. The reason I’m telling you about this is that I think it demonstrates a difference when feelings are almost all ego conditioning. (I say “almost” all ego, because of course the being is always participating, if only to the extent of putting energy into the feelings.)
Just now another memory came to mind, something else “similar” to what you wrote – but this one is sort of at the other end of the spectrum from my first example. It has to do with the “desire” for freedom. In the book “Autobiography of a Yogi,” I read Paramahansa Yogananda’s description of the utter passion he had as a very young man to know God – and it was almost unbearable for him. I don’t believe his “desire” had very much to do with ego either.
Anyway, thanks for your willingness and ability to communicate your innermost feelings. That’s high on the tone scale, as you know. 😉
TC : ———-Thanks for the video on “I Want” from Mooji , Marildi. I always enjoy hi m talking. I got to admit , though , that I’ve always had disagreements with this particular view point from Non-Dualists , since I’ve know that datum (which I know it s ince several years ago). If by “want” he […] ———-
Marildi : “Wow, Peter. This has to be one of your best pieces of writing ever. No doubt there was a huge component of soul in it! ”
Peter : Thanks ; most kind.
Marildi : “Something ‘similar’ (but in another way doesn’t compare) to what you wrote about was an experience I had one time when I was getting some auditing. I “fell in love” with my auditor. It hit me by surprise because of how suddenly it happened – and because prior to that I hadn’t even found this man to be attractive! But aside from that, I somehow knew my feelings weren’t real, even though they were pretty strong.”
Peter : Yeah, I see your point. I knew that I was missing an “item on the list” , and that’s why I was not getting any “BDs” ; an item was not put on the list before “nulling” it. If the woman that I was referring to have that same viewpoint on what “falling in love” is, then I guess that that explains everything for me now. But more on this further down this post.
Marildi : “I also knew that I would be wasting my auditing hours because of not being “in session” – that is, not interested in case. This was at Flag and the auditing rates were pretty high, but I still put off saying anything to anybody about what was going on. I wanted to hold on to that wonderful feeling for a while. It was a “desire” I just didn’t want to give up.”
Peter : Ok, keep going , I am paying a LOT of attention to this, and am VERY interested in how that ended.
Marildi : “After a couple more sessions, I finally said something to someone and got a new auditor . She flew 6 ruds on me – and that was it. The whole “thing” was GONE in the space of a very short session.”
Peter : So I guess it was never “real” to begin with , if it was gone with 6 Ruds. It was all about “Ego Conditioning”. If this is the way that this friend of mine look at romanticism , then I guess we were never that “similar” as I thought were to begin with , and that I only “fell in love” with the ideal and not with the actuality. I feel so much better now ; thank you. It is just marvelous to find the right item on a list.
Marildi : “I was totally amazed. The reason I’m telling you about this is that I think it demonstrates a difference when feelings are almost all ego conditioning. (I say “almost” all ego, because of course the being is always participating, if only to the extent of putting energy into the feelings.)”
Peter : That’s a VERY peculiar way to look at romanticism and that love that comes from the very core of the soul. No offense, but If this is the way that most non-dualist women look at the subject of love and partnership (to what they are ENTIRELY entitled to) , then I better stay as the “Priest Poet” , and just devote my poetry to the ideal. Ideals never bite back , at least. Ideals are genuine and sincere with what they feel, and they need of no “Egos” to explain the beautiful glory of loving someone more than life itself. Ideals doesn’t need to hide behind curtains , secrecy and separateness as “Ego(s) do.
Marildi : “Just now another memory came to mind, something else “similar” to what you wrote – but this one is sort of at the other end of the spectrum from my first example. It has to do with the “desire” for freedom. In the book “Autobiography of a Yogi,” I read Paramahansa Yogananda’s description of the utter passion he had as a very young man to know God – and it was almost unbearable for him. I don’t believe his “desire” had very much to do with ego either.”
Peter : Got it ; thanks for sharing that.
Marildi : Anyway, thanks for your willingness and ability to communicate your innermost feelings.”
Peter : Thank YOU for opening my eyes to “reality” , and for putting a right item on the list that I was missing. And I don’t think that our posters nor my friend , are going to see any more “innermost feelings” expressed. You know what LRH said, “A flow that runs in only one direction can only flow so long w/out getting stuck”.
Marildi : “That’s high on the tone scale, as you know. 😉 ”
Peter : Yeah, I know ; thanks! The problem with getting that high – which is PRETTY high, by the way – is that the fall is so much much painful and even deadly. But you know what many poets love ; “the beautiful sadness” of it all. Wouldn’t change that for all the “serenity” and “peace of mind” of the world. I rather stay as an “Ego poet” in love “attached” to ideals , than to turn into an unromantic Self.
Thanks for sharing your views.
Peter, you misunderstood what I meant when I said my experience with the auditor was “similar” – which I put in quotes because it wasn’t actually similar in the most important ways. I then added that it “doesn’t compare” to what you had written.
In no way did I mean that your own feelings weren’t real. The whole reason I told you about that experience was as a comparison in order to (again quoting my post) “demonstrate a difference when feelings ARE almost all ego conditioning” The key word there was “difference.”
By the same token, I think a person can have ego mixed in with true feelings, but that would be up to you to decide if that’s true for you. And I think the nondual wisdom that Mooji expresses in his videos will help.
Come on, I thought you knew me better than that. 😛 🙂
Marildi : “Peter, you misunderstood what I meant when I said my experience with the auditor was “similar” – which I put in quotes because it wasn’t actually similar in the most important ways. I then added that it “doesn’t compare” to what you had written.”
Peter : It was never a good idea to have brought that example in the first place , when someone is putting his naked heart in your hands in front of the whole world , Marildi. As a woman you should have known better than that. You made me feel as a romantic fool who doesn’t know what he really wants , and who is controlled by “Ego(s)”.
Marildi : “In no way did I mean that your own feelings weren’t real. The whole reason I told you about that experience was as a comparison in order to (again quoting my post) “demonstrate a difference when feelings ARE almost all ego conditioning” The key word there was “difference.”
Peter : Got it, and thanks for the clarification. But do me a favor and read my original post (the one about my feelings) from MY viewpoint (not yours) , then read your reply to that from my OWN viewpoint again. Then decide unbiasedly and objectively how you would have felt yourself. Your honest answer to that will be enough for me , but I want you to do that little exercise first.
Marildi : “By the same token, I think a person can have ego mixed in with true feelings, but that would be up to you to decide if that’s true for you.”
Peter : Exactly so. It is MY decision to make , not yours or anybody else’s. I am not a baby , Marildi , don’t treat me like one. I am not a Sandro or a Travolta , by a long, long ways, but women seems to see something in me as I never had a problem with getting them to get interested in me. Perhaps it is the fact that I always treated them as queens , with a lot of respect and details as I am a man of a LOT of details with women which they seem to love.
So I am in no frame of mind at all that I can’t get any woman I want. That’s have never been a problem with me. All it takes is an Ad in a dating site , a poem and a rose , and I would have quite a pool to choose from. So do not get confused here. I talk with women everyday and exchange e-mails with quite a few of them as friends. I am not in a “can’t have” as regards to that at all.
But out of dozens of women that I have interacted with at different blogs and e-mails , none made me think 2nd dynamically at all ; none. I was very firm in my decision not to play the 2D game again ; VERY firm. Some of them tried to hitting on me , and I was VERY polite about it just as you have been with me. But only one was capable of getting the stubborn Peter Davis to look at the ideal again , and to even rekindle his romanticism for LIFE itself, not just about the 2D. And she made me write good poetry written with the blood of the heart. An honest deeply felt poetry filled with honest REAL feelings, not mixed AT ALL with any petty Ego(s). You just can’t evaluate me as man the same way as you would do with others. Sorry , I just don’t fit in the general mold. So don’t do it , please.
Marildi : “And I think the nondual wisdom that Mooji expresses in his videos will help.”
Peter : I don’t need neither Mooji nor Ayashanti to teach me what is real or not about me or about life. I have gotten where I am by my own efforts and Self-determinism. I do listen to them, and I do learn from them a lot. They are just great , BOTH of them. Individuals that I would love to meet one day and call “my friend”. But I am not in a frame of mind that I am an amateur that needs to abandon his power of choice over data. I take from them what is real for me and discard the rest.
Marildi : “Come on, I thought you knew me better than that. 😛 🙂 ”
Peter : Perhaps I would if you were more open to me, instead of maintaining a ridge between us. A flow flowing too long in just one direction gets stuck , Marildi. And I am not talking about a “2D return flow” at ALL. I am talking about a return of trust, sincerity , openness and willingness to communicate at higher levels of intimacy. Perhaps all this was just a mistake. Sorry to have bothered you.
None of this change what I have expressed about you, and the way that I feel and KNOW that you have contributed positively in my life. My interactions with you changed me profoundly and that’s a fact and not my opinion. And I am just very grateful that I found you in my path. Wouldn’t change anything about it if we could reverse time. Would have said the same things to you, and would have written you the same poetry as you EARNED all of it. We just are not as similar as we thought we were perhaps ; otherwise you would not be still a pen name and a world of ideas and words , don’t you think ? Analyze that.
I don’t pretend to affect the romantic life that you already created. I respect that. I am not a baby that I am going to die of love about you. I am not an adolescense , I am a man with self-respect. Besides your ideas about love and romanticism expressed in your post just doesn’t appeal to me. So that would be more than enough to look you as a friend.
Perhaps I was just looking for someone to talk to ; someone with similar interests and moral values. A friend to drink beer with and hang out (with your friends as well). Someone to call when I feel bored. Someone to talk to about perhaps a woman I met. Or about my daughter.
I am here should you REALLY want me as part of your friends. Not just being “polite” and “diplomatic” about it. Not as a pen name who resist intimacy. Sorry but if I am sincere and honest for the good and beautiful , you should expect the same sincerity and honesty when you might not like what I say as well. It is only fair , don’t you think ?
Take care.
With Love,
Davis
Peter: “You made me feel as a romantic fool who doesn’t know what he really wants, and who is controlled by ‘Ego(s)’.”
That was the opposite of what I intended. All I can say is that I have been sincere in all my comm to you. But if that last post was insensitive, I sincerely apologize. Maybe we should leave it at that for now and renew the friendship later on. Okay?
TC : “You made me feel as a romantic fool who doesn’t know what he really wants, and who is controlled by ‘Ego(s)’.”
Marildi : “That was the opposite of what I intended.”
Peter : I never said nor thought that those were your intentions , but just how the post made me feel ; two different things , Marildi. I know with 100% certainty that you operate with the best of the intentions.
Marildi : “All I can say is that I have been sincere in all my comm to you.”
Peter : Yes , I know that. You are mixing the subject and deviating from my main line of thought. I am upset with you, Marildi. I specifically asked you to not agree to go beyond the “world of ideas and words” with me unless it was something that appealed to you 100% , not even 99.9999%. I told you that it would feel very odd to me otherwise. “Appeal” for me means, “To be attractive and interesting. To desire, to really wish for something”. And then you asked me for my e-mail address to only become the same as in the blog : a pen name discussing the same things. We could have continued to do that in the blog itself as we are doing now , don’t you think ?
I mean , the first 1-2 exchanges we may expect the person to be a little careful and sort of “defensive”. But then, one would expect at least knowing the person’s real name , what does he/she does in life, and normal details that people USUALLY exchange between them when they are knowing each other as friends, either as woman-man friends or as man-man friends. That’s has always been my experience with people who have asked me for my e-mail address at others blogs like at Rinder’s and BIC. About 60% were men and 40% women. And we BOTH immediately knew details about each other’s life as a natural flow of things. But that wasn’t my experience with you.
But in my own personal case , I am a complete open book with you , and you KNOW this to be a fact. Gee , you even know how many members my family consist of. In this blog , I’ve been an open book with you in front of probably thousands of individuals. But the flow eventually get stuck , Marildi , as the exchange factor gets out. Why did you accept it in the first place , to get into e-mail comms with me if you wasn’t willing to engage in intimate comms with me ? “Intimate” as in “1.Characterized by close personal acquaintance or familiarity”.
It is great to be “polite” and “diplomatic” and all that. But if not intimacy develops at some point , then there is no real friendship. Sorry , no evaluation intended , but you do not wish or reach for any intimacy with me. And that’s totally ok ; there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that AS LONG AS we are just blog-friends and nothing more. People with similar interests that exchanges comms within a blog. But real life friends reach for more intimacy than that , so we are not that.
So let’s just confront the reality here (which is ok as a reality) , and just say “Marildi and Peter” are blog friends. That’s ok and acceptable. Any other assertion is not true at all. Not from you , no.
Marildi : “But if that last post was insensitive, I sincerely apologize.”
Peter : Thank you for your apologies , Marildi. But this isn’t about my sensitivity. It is about being honest and sincere with each other if something bother us , REGARDLESS of the real intentions behind any event. You are an excellent individual with great feelings and kindness. A person who seek to ack others and validate them. That’s why I love you. But I just feel the ridge between us. The distance you keep. The intimacy you resist to. And that’s perfectly ok , and even expected AS LONG AS we are only blog friends. If that’s what only appeal to you ; then that’s ok with me ; let’s just be THAT.
Marildi : “Maybe we should leave it at that for now and renew the friendship later on. Okay?”
Peter : Fine by me.
Peter: “And then you asked me for my e-mail address to only become the same as in the blog: a pen name discussing the same things. We could have continued to do that in the blog itself as we are doing now , don’t you think?”
No, Peter, not really. I asked for your email address because you had commented that you didn’t understand the connection you felt with me, and I thought we should discuss it by email because I didn’t think it was something that should be discussed on a blog. And we did discuss that subject, right away. Then other subjects of mutual interest came up, and I didn’t have the time to write more than I did. I wasn’t trying to be secretive with you – I was just interested in the other things and, as I say, didn’t have time for more.
But I do understand how you feel, because once again I’ve been in your shoes! One time, one of my “e-pals” turned out to have little interest in personal comm, even though I did. I had to make a decision, and in the end I decided I wanted the comm line anyway because I enjoyed our discussions. This was before I knew anything about nonduality but that was the point of view I was sort of “forced” to take – like what Mooji described in the last video of his I posted. In hindsight, it may have been better to forget about it, because it was still difficult for me for quite a while.
I’m not trying to tell you what is right for you, but from my side I can see that we do have different Realities, and that is why I think we should give it a rest. I’m glad you are okay on us being blog friends. 🙂
TC : “And then you asked me for my e-mail address to only become the same as in the blog: a pen name discussing the same things. We could have continued to do that in the blog itself as we are doing now , don’t you think?”
Marildi : “No, Peter, not really. I asked for your email address because you had commented that you didn’t understand the connection you felt with me, and I thought we should discuss it by email because I didn’t think it was something that should be discussed on a blog.”
Peter : Look Marildi , I see no point in discussing this any further as you are not going to see my viewpoint I feel. You are just TOO stubborn. I just can’t buy your comment that you felt that such a thing should be discussed in the blog , as you had ALREADY discussed things with me of comparable magnitude as regards to intimacy , RIGHT here in the the blog. Right before you asking me for my address , I asked you to please decide to expand the friendship “Beyond the the world of ideas and words” ONLY if it appealed to you 100%. I told you that , otherwise, it would feel odd to me and even forced. I told you that I valued sincerity.
And when you wrote to me , you didn’t even touched the subject of synchronicity between us after the 3rd e-mail ; it was not “right away” as you said. That you “ONLY” asked my e-mail address to just discuss my “question” (which was a rhetorical one , obviously) more “privately” , is something I can’t just think with , I got to tell you.
And when I commented on your views about the connection that according to YOU, by your OWN origination , was “MUTUAL” , then you didn’t even replied to that. Don’t try to change now the order of the events and alter what really happened. It seems that this is an old habit in you when you feel “cornered”.
Marildi : And we did discuss that subject, right away.”
Peter : No, not right away, no. It was in the 3rd mail , even if they were sent one after the other in a period of 2 days.
Marildi : “Then other subjects of mutual interest came up, and I didn’t have the time to write more than I did.”
Peter : No, no subjects of “mutual” interest “came up” ; YOU brought them up and , I followed you in the discussion. And I can understand you not having any more time. But you shouldn’t have asked me for my address in the first place if that’s the way it was going to be. My question about my wondering why I felt connected with you, was sort of rhetorical , and I am VERY sure that someone with your intellect KNEW that. Besides, someone with your writing skills and diplomacy skills could have handled my originations concerning that DIRECTLY in the blog as easy as eating a cake. This is something that I am sure you KNOW is true. Yet you are trying to get me to think, that that was your “reason” to ask for my e-mail address. I don’t buy it , but I no longer care anyway.
Marildi : “I wasn’t trying to be secretive with you – I was just interested in the other things and, as I say, didn’t have time for more.”
Peter : “Wasn’t trying to be secretive” , but introduced yourself as “Marildi” , when the normal thing for people who decide to engage in e-mails exchanges is to discuss their names and a little bit of them, as it has happened with me with 99.99 of the ones (males and females) that asked for my e-mail address ? You being that .01% . I know your name , by the way ; I was just expecting the detail of you mentioning it on your own as I did with mine.
Marildi : “But I do understand how you feel, because once again I’ve been in your shoes! One time, one of my “e-pals” turned out to have little interest in personal comm, even though I did. I had to make a decision, and in the end I decided I wanted the comm line anyway because I enjoyed our discussions.”
Peter : Well, that’s not going to happen with me. I have more pride and self-respect than that ; that’s for sure. I don’t propitiate ARC from ANYBODY.
Marildi : “This was before I knew anything about nonduality but that was the point of view I was sort of “forced” to take – like what Mooji described in the last video of his I posted.”
Peter : Good for you. In my particular case, the decision I feel “force” to take is to just cut the comm line with you. You are just too cold to be my friend.
Marildi : “In hindsight, it may have been better to forget about it, because it was still difficult for me for quite a while.”
Peter : Well, it is not going to be ANY difficult for me to let go as you are making it VERY easy for me ; thank you.
Marildi : “I’m not trying to tell you what is right for you, but from my side I can see that we do have different Realities”
Peter : “Different realities” ? Gee , that’s the understatement of the century indeed!!!
Marildi : “…., and that is why I think we should give it a rest. I’m glad you are okay on us being blog friends. 🙂 ”
Peter : No, not anymore. You can stay here all by yourself with your obvious first dynamic attitude. You just can’t accept when you have made a mistake in judgment. It was as simple as NEVER asking me for my e-mail address as I had asked you not to if you wasn’t reaply interested. Read that post again if you need to clear your occlusions.
But that’s ok. I am just happy that I met the REAL Marildi on time. It certainly saved me of a LOT of future pain.
But I have no regrets at ALL. You helped me a lot even if those weren’t your real intentions. You made me dream again and to seek for the ideal. You pointed out to good directions of survival and spiritual knowledge. And I am grateful for that. And you made me rekindle my love for art again. So I think that’s enough pay for me. So I release you.
I don’t feel like exchanging in the blog with you. Perhaps that will change in a near future. Right now I am just too mad at you. You are being too cold , and I don’t like the feel of that. We are DEFINITIVELY not alike in any way , shape or form. I am happy I saw it on time.
Take care,
Peter
p.s. It happened again where I didn’t see that you had posted videos, because they don’t show up in the email notification. I’ll try to remember to check the blog thread too!
I watched the shorter one and it was great – thanks for posting! I’ll watch the other one you posted when I have more time.
I also saw your reply to my post with the Adyashanti video and I loved it. I’ll have to reply to that later also.
Cheers, my friend! 🙂
Marilsi : “p.s. It happened again where I didn’t see that you had posted videos, because they don’t show up in the email notification. I’ll try to remember to check the blog thread too!”
“I watched the shorter one and it was great – thanks for posting! I’ll watch the other one you posted when I have more time.”
“I also saw your reply to my post with the Adyashanti video and I loved it. I’ll have t o reply to that later also.”
“Cheers, my friend! :)”
I am just going to reply to all that with a song applicable to today’s event between us , and all I wish to tell you at the moment . I hope you like it :
Thank you, Peter. I love that type of Spanish music.
No one could ever accuse you of not having a romantic soul. 😀
Marildi : “Thank you, Peter. I love that type of Spanish music.”
“No one could ever accuse you of not having a romantic soul. 😀 ”
Peter : Thank you. As a matter of fact , I was just writing to Geir to ask him to please take that particular post (the video and the roses) down , but then changed my mind about it. I did , as I am a genuine and sincere individual , and when I posted it , I felt it with all my heart. I felt that I might have been unfair to you to some degree when you posted your reply about the Flag’s “falling in love” incident. I looked at the post in a new unit of time , and your other p.s reply , and I said to me , “what an asshole you were. She didn’t mean to invalidate your feelings”. I feel this knot in my heart , and that song “Forgive me” came to mind. Then I searched and searched for a version with English subtitles . The song was about what I was feeling at the time , and I didn’t want you to go to sleep upset about it. So it was VERY sincere and still is.
I just feel so , so, so sad right now. I feel so stupid and silly.
Anyway, I want that song to remain as it is. I wish you much success in your path to Spiritual Awakening.
Love,
Peter
Sorry – that’s the first video in the whole series, rather than the one the should have come up. Here’s it is as a single video (I hope).
That’s all right ; thanks. I’ll get in comm with you tomorrow again. Take care.
p.s. I meant to say thanks for all the poetry in this post too. 😉
Marildi : ” p.s. I meant to say thanks for all the poetry in this post too. 😉 ”
You are most welcome ; anything for you. 🙂
Hi , Marildi ; I’ve meaning to ask you a question that might sound odd to you. Does the number 2-12 (with or w/out the dash) has any special meaning in your life ? , or do you encounter it with any frequency ? A birthdate ? An address ? Something ? Thanks.
Hi Peter,
It does sound familiar, but maybe that’s just because of Routine 2-12. 🙂 Why do you ask?
Marildi : “Hi Peter,
It does sound familiar, but maybe that’s just because of Routine 2-12. 🙂 Why do yo u ask? ”
Peter : Hi , thanks for the reply. I was just testing a theory. It is a number that keeps repeating in my life , specially in the last 4-5 years. The frequency with which it repeat itself is almost daily at different scenarios. Lately almost 3-5x a day. I have been studying these past days the subject of “Synchronicity” as it applies to Spiritual Awakening and the subject of “Twin-Flames” as well.
There exist something called “Angel Numbers” which is allegedly a coded massage from disembodied beings that has some specific meaning. First I thought that it had to do with the year 2012 and the Mayan Calendar (not representing the “End of the world” , but a planetary tendency for Spiritual Awakening) , but nothing happened with me at or after 2012. Then I thought that it had to do with R2-12 , as a process that would handle once and for all some specific case phenomena that I’ve dramatized all my life. I did R2-12 (sort of) , but my situation didn’t improve , though I admit that I didn’t understand that process as I do now ; so I am going to go for it again.
So I wanted to check the subject of synchronicity , and verify if that number had any special significances for you beyond Scn’s R2-12. It was just a hunch , never mind.
Because I’ve been in an INTENSE emotional and spiritual roller coaster during the past 4-5 months, and specially during these past weeks , I wanted others that perhaps have been experiencing the same, to take advantage of the information that the following link provided me :
http://www.jadestarotreadings.com/spiritual-awakening-signs.html
Even though that I really knew about Spiritual Awakening as a general subject , I had never been curious enough about it so as to research the subject in detail. Today I did , and stumbled upon that website which acted as a right indication as to what the hell has been happening to me. The list of mental/spiritual symptoms of going through that process , was like a “Correction List” with “reads” all over the place and many “Blowdowns”. So I decided to post the link in case anyone else can find it as useful and helpful as I found it.
I know that many Ex-Scientologists go through a very rough time as they feel that Scn didn’t provide them with the Spiritual awakening that they expected to have with it. I know I didn’t. That frequently traumatic experience, often send most of them into this process of Spiritual Awakening that can be quite traumatic and hard at its beginning stages. Many just give up on spirituality , and adopt a “middle class” type of attitude towards life which may lack true purpose and meaning. So I am posting this as some “Food for Thought” for such individuals.
Best,
Peter
Peter: “The list of mental/spiritual symptoms of going through that process , was like a ‘Correction List’ with ‘reads’ all over the place and many ‘Blowdowns’.
Awesome, Peter. I am really happy for you! 😀
I saw some things in the article that I could relate to as well. Thanks much for posting it.
TC : “The list of mental/spiritual symptoms of going through that process , was like a ‘Correction List’ with ‘reads’ all over the place and many ‘Blowdowns’.
Marildi : “Awesome, Peter. I am really happy for you! :D.”
Peter : Thanks, Marildi ; most kind.
Marildi : “I saw some things in the article that I could relate to as well. Thanks much for posting it.”
Peter : You are most welcome ; I am glad that you could relate to it as well. W/out trying so sound evaluative , I had been observing in you the phenomena of Spiritual Awakening since quite some time ago. Not the hard parts , you know , but the good ones. You have a great potential , Marildi. I got to confess that I was always concerned about the way that your attachment (past or present , whatever applies to your current scene. I don’t want to make assumptions) to Scn might affect your spiritual growth. Seeing you now down the path of Awakening with spiritual guides such as Adyashanti and Mooji , brings happiness to my heart. Not that I ever really wanted for you to “abandon” Scn. But I was only concerned about the part of being under an unsuspected undue influence. But I feel at ease with it now as I’ve seen your Freedom of Thought and your power of choice over data.
I know that I have probably bored you all to death with my foolish romanticism , but I owed a poetry (lyric) to someone that I hold very dear. And I like to keep my promises. So I’ll just post this if you don’t mind , and just be on my way to other destinies.
A TALK WITH MY HEART
By Davis
Conscience : Why did you have to wake up from your deep sleep , my very dear friend ? Didn’t you know that I was only trying to protect you ? That I was only trying to keep the sword of love out of your reach ? A sword whose one edge cut through the most formidable barriers , bringing about inconceivable pleasures, but whose other side has cut you through life leaving you with the scars of sadness ?
Heart : I only found loneliness while I was asleep , my very dear Conscience ; with dreams that lacked adventure and passion ; with dreams where all canvases were painted in grey colors as the night has when she is waking up to cover the world of illusions.
Conscience : But at least you weren’t bleeding ; and sadness stayed away as she can only touch those who are aware and awake. What can possibly have made you to want to come out of your hibernate sleep ? What prompted you to face the cold reality of life again ?
Heart : I suddenly felt touch by love again , my friend. Her kiss of tenderness waked me up, and I saw myself reflected again in her gentle eyes , filling me with happiness and hope.
Conscience : But love is treacherous, dear heart ; she seduced you only to stab you in the back while poisoning you with her deadly kisses and her piercing thorns. Why did you let her in through the door of hope ?
Heart : Cause this time she looked genuine and sincere ; and I could feel her tenderness in her eyes ; and her honesty in her soul. She is different than all others ; she is very sweet , gentle , kind and incredible smart. Her words speak of truth , speak of wisdom and hope. And beauty whispered in my ears that she had gotten into her soul .
Conscience : An illusion is what all that only is ; she only wants to deceive you to rob you of your magical touch. To feed off the light of your inner self , you fool.
Heart : Oh , but you don’t know her as I do ; she brings light and wisdom to everything she touches. She can paint very beautiful canvases in the fabric of life. The sound of her voice calm my inner self down, and connect me with all of life where peace and harmony protect me from the eternal darkness and the piercing cold.
Conscience : You are just in love , you silly and romantic fool. You are going to get hurt again. Just go back to sleep and forget all about her before it is too late.
Heart : I don’t want to forget her ; I want to wake up and see myself reflected in her eyes every day. I want to get lost in her enchanting smile ; to find my way out of the darkness with the sound of her voice.
Conscience : But you can’t have her , you stupid heart ; she belongs to another man, didn’t you know ?
Heart : Oh my very dear friend ; my pain has robbed you of the wisdom that you once had. You were the one that taught me that to have is not to posses ; that to love included the willingness to let go ; the desire to give without receiving ; the capacity to be without becoming. I just love her as she is ; free and independent ; a spirit that belongs to all that needs her ; to all in need of tenderness and words of comfort.
Conscience : You stubborn romantic ; you’ll get hurt ; sadness will find you out , and take you to the bottom of the dark pit with her. You’ll bleed to death this time, you fool blinded poet.
Heart : This time is different, my dear conscience ; this time I really learned what real love is all about. It isn’t about attachments and needs ; it isn’t about possessing and holding on to things. It isn’t about you but about the other ; it isn’t about receiving but about selfless giving. I can now love without the need to be loved back ; I can now love without the need to feel sad at all , as the sword of love doesn’t any longer have its two conflicting edges , but just the one that brings hope , happiness and comfort.
Conscience : My eternal romantic fool ; how can I argue against those truths ? She most be the most remarkable being in the whole world. By what name does she goes ?
Heart : She is the queen of my inner self ; the light that illuminates my days ; the music that is always with me, and she knows who she is.
O.M.G. That is truly beautiful. And it is so real! I once had a very similar experience – that’s how I know it is real. But I could never have expressed it so exquisitely. I love who you are, Peter – really special. ❤ 🙂
What do you mean – on your way to "other destinies"? You aren't going to be away too long, are you?
p.s. Who is “Davis”?
Marildi : “p.s. Who is ‘Davis’?”
Peter : I was born “Peter Davis”. But in the the lyric/poem that I wrote , I was seing “Peter” as an old “Ego” , and “Davis” as my real Self.
I see. Nice literary touch. 😉
Thanks! 🙂
Marildi : “O.M.G. That is truly beautiful.”
Peter : Thanks ; most kind. I am very happy that you liked it. I made it for you as I had promised you a lyric , remember ? And I wanted to close that cycle of action in my universe.
Marildi : “And it is so real! I once had a very similar experience – that’s how I know it is real. ”
Peter : Knowing you as I feel I do (cause I see myself very much as a reflection of you) , I know how real it must be for you.
Marildi : “But I could never have expressed it so exquisitely.”
Peter : Thank you for your always lovely validations and encouragements , Marildi.
Marildi : ” I love who you are, Peter – really special. ❤ 🙂 "
Peter : And I love everything about you , Marildi. And If I am special , it is only because the eyes of a remarkable being is looking at me. The eyes that see perfection in everything they look.
Marildi : "What do you mean – on your way to "other destinies"? You aren't going to be away too long, are you?"
Peter : No , I am not. It was mostly a metaphor. By "other destinies" , I meant other adventures in my path of Awakening. But I'll stay close enough , I promise. How can't I ever abandon the great adventure of exchanging comms with my favorite blog poster ? :-)))
Peter : “Knowing you as I feel I do (cause I see myself very much as a reflection of you), I know how real it must be for you.”
I actually feel that it was a “mini-awakening” for me. Not long ago, I watched an Adyshanti interview video and was amazed that he had experienced something very similar. In the interview, he talks about different kinds of love and at about 42:00 (or so) he describes how he fell in love with someone he had never met in real life – and she had also been dead for 200 years! 🙂 I’ll post the video below.
Peter: “By ‘other destinies’, I meant other adventures in my path of Awakening. But I’ll stay close enough, I promise. How can I ever abandon the great adventure of exchanging comms with my favorite blog poster ? :-))) ”
It has been a great adventure for me too. All the similarities are really something. I’m happy we became friends. 🙂
TC : “Knowing you as I feel I do (cause I see myself very much as a reflection of you), I know how real it must be for you.”
Marildi : “I actually feel that it was a “mini-awakening” for me.”
Peter : That’s great! , I am glad that you experienced it , and that it had a positive effect in your life. For me , this has been a “mini-awakening” as well.
Marildi : “Not long ago, I watched an Adyshanti interview video and was amazed that he had experienced something very similar. In the interview, he talks about different kinds of love and at about 42:00 (or so) he describes how he fell in love with someone he had never met in real life – and she had also been dead for 200 years! 🙂 I’ll post the video below.”
Peter : Wow! , that’s a fascinating experience indeed!. I had fallen in love with this character from the Medieval period (that lovely period of “Knights and Maidens” , and intense Romanticism). A beautiful very long red-haired angel with dark green-blue eyes. I don’t know where I got the concept from ; all I know is that her image (in mock-ups) burnt the blood in my veins and turned me into a day-dreamer. I just loved to see movies about the beautiful long red-hair princess and the brave Knight. In real life, I just got thrilled by women resembling that mocked up. Reality was then replaced by the ideal.
My fixation with it was frequently accompanied with a great sensation of nostalgia and an immense loss. It felt as if I had loved very, very much someone like that , and had lost her through death around those medieval times. I can still feel her sometimes, but not that much. But back then, she became the inspiration for a lot of poetry. Oh , the “Beautiful Sadness” of it all !
I’ll see your posted video as I am very curious about what Ayashanti has to say about it.
TC : “By ‘other destinies’, I meant other adventures in my path of Awakening. But I’ll stay close enough, I promise. How can I ever abandon the great adventure of exchanging comms with my favorite blog poster ? :-))) ”
Marildi : “It has been a great adventure for me too.”
Peter : Thanks! 🙂
Marildi : “All the similarities are really something.”
Peter : They are! , aren’t they ?
Marildi : “I’m happy we became friends. 🙂 ”
Peter : Thanks! ; I am very happy too. And I will toast to that! 🙂
GIVE ME BACK MY HEART
I want my heart back that you stole from me while I was asleep. A heart that you took away with your enchanting eyes and your poisonous smile.
I want my mind back that you filled with dreams of nostalgia and hope , with the music of the soul. I want my eyes back, that you nullified , with your blinding beauty and your charming smile.
Was it so difficult to love me back ? Was it so difficult to hold my hands , and to let me take you to dance with the stars ?
Why did yo have to put a spell on my heart , and to fill my mind with things that would never be ? Why did you pretend you care? Why did you put me in your snare?
I want my heart back. A heart the is bleeding to death while I am going blind and losing all my mind.
You had no right to open up my mind to the beauty of the world , bringing me a hope that would never be fulfill . You had no right to take me beyond this world to only let me go to fall in your charming arms.
I want my heart back , you thief of love, who showed me a whole new world of dreams and hope. But then you let me go to be totally on my own without your heart and soul.
Why did you deceive me ? Why did you pretend you care? Why do you speak of things you don’t really feel ?
I want my heart back , you thief of love who showed me a beautiful world to only let me go , to take me out of your mind. You don’t dream of me as I dream of you. You don’t feel for me what I feel for you.
Why did you have to be so wonderful ? Why did you open for me the door of love and hope to only let me go chasing an impossible dream ? Didn’t you know that my heart was very weak ? Didn’t you know that I didn’t want to dream?
I want my hear back ; you clever thief of hope who made me dream of a love that was never meant to be. Am I so easy to forget ? Am I so easy to deceive ?
I want my hear back ; you cold thief of love who gave me all this hope to only let me go.
Please, give me back my heart. 😥 </3
This is going to be my last post here for a while.
This poem is a lot more than just art and illusions. This poem expresses the feelings and thoughts that comes from the very core of my soul.
This poem is dedicated to all those naive poet hearts that live in the world of illusions and dreams. To all of you silly poets that expose yourselves so much to the coldness of life and existence. To all of you silly poets that offer your hearts at first sight to others that never deserved them.
I feel for you dreamers of love and of the beautiful closeness of the Oneness of the soul. You , who do not belong to this world of false promises and broken hopes . Better stay attached to “reality” , and give up your stupid romanticism towards this cold world. . Better face the big emptiness of existence , and dream only about things that are destined to be. Better wake up from your silly dreams of things that are never meant to be. Life only lure you with the diamond of beauty and love to only take your hearts away. Life , the great and cold thief of love. Wake up poets of life, wake up to the reality of existence in this cold world. Good-bye.
GIVE ME BACK MY HEART
By Davis
[Note : All comas indicate a small pause while stressing the LAST syllable (or just the only one it has) of the word just before it with a long sound at the end , a little more stressed than the rest of the words of the verse. All words before the dot at the end of each sentence , and right before the question marks , are to be pronounced that way , but with the normal stressed syllable of the word. ]
I want my heart back , that you stole from me , while I was asleep. A heart that you took away , with your enchanting eyes , and your poisonous smile.
I want my mind back , that you filled with dreams , of nostalgia and hope , with the music of the soul. I want my eyes back, that you nullify , with your blinding beauty , and your charming smile.
Was it so difficult to love me back ? Was it so difficult to hold my hands , to take you to the stars , with a smiling heart ?
Why did you put a spell on my heart , filling up my mind , with things that would never be ? Why did you pretend you care? Why did you put me in your snare?
I want my heart back. A heart the is bleeding to death , while I am going blind , and losing all my mind.
You had no right , to open up my mind , to the beauty of the world , bringing me a hope , that would never be fulfill . You had no right , to take me out of this world , to only let me go , out of your charming arms.
I want my heart back , you thief of love, who showed me a whole new world , of dreams and hope. But then you let me go , to be totally on my own , without your heart and soul.
Why did you have to deceive ? Why did you pretend you care? Why do you speak of things , that you don’t really feel ?
I want my heart back , you thief of love , who showed me a beautiful world , to only let me go , while taking me out of your heart . You don’t dream of me, as I dream of you. You don’t feel for me , as I feel for you.
Why did you have to be so mean ? Why did you open the door of love , to only let me go , chasing an impossible dream ? Didn’t you know that my heart was very weak ? Didn’t you know that I didn’t want to dream?
I want my heart back , you clever thief of hope , who made me dream of a love , that was never meant to be. Am I so easy to forget ? Am I so easy to deceive ?
I want my heart back , you cold thief of love , who gave me all this hope , to only let me go.
Please, give me back my heart. 😥 </3
“Truth is easy for others,
but not so for me.
I find it a moving target.
Uncertain? – Maybe.”
LOL~Chris Thompson