Rotten attitude

When a friend of mine came out an accident and in dire need of help, she turned to a fellow scientologist. She told my friend that she wouldn’t help because she could not get into such “entheta”, being an OT VIII and all.

An other friend of mine turned to his OT VII and VIII friends for some assistance only to be told that it was beneath them to help someone at his level.

If this seems bad, it’s nothing compared to a fellow scientologist here in Norway who refused to work for a friend’s company for a rather sickening reason.

The company collected money for a group of musicians with Down’s Syndrome, making it possible for them to put up concerts and perform. And they are great performers even with their disabilities.

The reason for turning down the job offer? He didn’t want to contribute to such degraded beings (DBs)!

If it is something I’d like to see slayed before sunrise, it is this haughty, arrogant, I-am-better-than-them attitude that I more than a few times saw with dedicated scientologists. It’s a rotten attitude.

41 thoughts on “Rotten attitude

  1. Perhaps we need an “OT Wall Of Shame” webpage where names could be named and these kind of stories would be posted.

    It could be a section of a larger site, “Scientology Wall Of Shame”.

  2. It is simply another way of saying I refuse to assist other’s in their endeavors to better themselves. The dissonance arises in that it stems from those who claim as their own goal the betterment of mankind. So much for lofty goals.

  3. The main criticism I have about Scientology is that it is an exercise in building “individuality,” or in other words, EGO. Hubbard had a misunderstood on “Individuality versus Identity” (See Scn 8-8008) that made him trash Nirvana. This is where Hubbard and Scientology departed from Buddhism and from the idea of compassion.

    1. Can’t really agree with you completely on this Vinaire. ARC=Understanding is at the very core of Scientology (all the way into the Axioms and Factors), and if ARC=Understanding is anything, it is an exercise in compassion.

      My view is that the Tech alone brings about tremendous compassion — in fact, the ne plus ultra in compassion.

      The building of EGO, imho, is almost completely a product of the Admin system, and to some degree the Ethics system: both after-thoughts, imho, in relation to Tech.

      The disdain for “downstats” and “SPs” and “counter intention” are all products of certain aspects of the Admin and Ethics systemw. If Tech were solely in use, imho, there would be ARC and compassion towards those in need and less fortunate.

    2. The context you term “trashing” nirvana in 8008 is as I recall Ron making a clarifying statement that as a person goes up the tone scale they become more and more individual, and do not part of a bigger ‘Us/we are all equal and one with the universe.’ He was saying it’s not something to fear because your indivduality will only increase the higher you go up the scale.

  4. This is the kind of behavior that brings to mind what these individuals could be in need of – a good ol’ spanking – Scientologists or not. Jesus christ, I don’t even want to guess where their IQ was before auditing when it’s this bad now! ;D

  5. I saw the same rotten attitude from a group of the OT’s in Phoenix, Arizona when I was connected to the cult. So, here in the Science of Survival book I see that at 2.0 “Responsibility at 2.0, we find the individual not executing responsibility for its own sake but assuming responsibility only when self or group interest can be served. We have the individual executing responsibility not reasonably toward creativeness and construction, but exercising responsibility on a punishment drive basis. The individual orders things to be done in threatening tones.” Yep. My daughter, who was the ED, married into this OT family and that sure does describe their whole little OT clique and it didn’t end there. The whole org was like that. I think it’s called “contagion of aberration” or some such thing? Or does fraud fit better? Maybe both. LOL

  6. Well, I don’t like very much using a word “cult”, but… Where this attitude is common is amongst cult members. They “know” they have and work with exclusive knowledge and therefore nothing else compares to that.

  7. Arrogance is the order of the day for current members of the Cult of Scientology. This behavior is typical of those who are led by Mr. Arrogance Himself, David Miscavige. And so it goes…

  8. Why, it most certainly is a rotten attitude. The funny thing is that SO MANY of these people haven’t a clue about what is going on around them. They haven’t an inkling of the lies and they have given their responsibility over to a management team that they trust explicitly, for no good reason. I would say that someone who gets all the way up the Bridge but who cannot perceive truth, lies, etc. is officially truly disabled and, in fact, disabled in a much worse way than someone who simply has a physical ailment. Many people with horrific physical ailments rise to the occasion to become some of the most amazing OT beings the world has ever seen and whom would put most of these PTS to the middle-class scaredy-cats to shame. Helping another too “entheta”? Please.

  9. That has been my experience too Geir.

    Anyway, I’m going to answer your “Will” paper with a different focusing question:

    “Can an yet undiscovered type of number (something akin to the irrationals and imaginaries) create its own reality and how would we find the source of such numbers?

    Ever wonder why the Pathagoreans were killed off and never allowed to return? And THEY made great people and great stories. People like Plato; stories like the friendship of Damon and Pythias. The list goes on.

    Lots of religions get attacked and yet they somehow survive.

    But the Pythagoreans never returned. Every faction of them died.

    Yes, the only religion where people trained for years to meditate on advanced mathematics was utterly destroyed. Plato even had to hide his Pythagorean faith via codes within in his works to pass it to the future generations to save his skin.

    And the “Plato Code” is proof of how amazing they really were.

  10. Those are “status OTs” … they haven’t made the grade, obviously, pure pomposity.

  11. In my exit I was told I was trash. My crime is I get upset at times. Which is well known out here on the web. Anyhow I stood proudly and told the MAA then there is a lot of us out here and he said he knew. He was serious too.

    I had to work to shed such an attitude myself.

    I just got hit by a car and the person that hit me is a nice person for real. I am talking to her a bit and she said she is going to take a safe driving course and is taking my advice of doing that as well as using the horn when she backs up.

    I can’t be above her. We all could be in her shoes.

  12. My guess is that these OTs are the new breed of OT. They buy their entire bridge professionally and they only do the training necessary to do their own solo auditing. IMO they are little more than professional pcs who have completely missed the boat because they have probably never audited anyone else other than to complete a course requirement. They have done only one half of the bridge, and when they have learned to be auditors, it is only for their own personal gain. The consequences are obvious as outlined in your article. I consider professional “pcs” to be far junior to even the lowliest auditor, who has learned to truly help another person, truly care what happens to another, truly act in a interdependent fashion with another person to their benefit. My point is that one does not live alone, one has an interdependent beingness and missing that point results in very status oriented, selfish-determined individuals who regard others problems as an annoying inconveniance instead of the truth, that those other individuals are a part of one’s existence and co-creation.

    The true lesson is learning to love and care about others. Auditors do that, day in and day out and that’s a major, major step to cause over all 8 dynamics.

    1. I agree. Even though I would fall into the category of professional PC 🙂 (Ok, I am an interned course sup, but I wouldn’t count that).

      1. Geir (and anyone else I may have offended): I do apologize for making it sound like I am lumping everyone into the same category. People are all different, and I have met people who have never had any auditor training or auditing who have a very well developed sense of compassion and caring. I guess I would say that they are “natural” auditors. Even so they benefit from learning to be auditors — I have seen a few of that type of people do auditor training and IMO they went on to become truly awesome auditors. I had the great fortune to be audited along the way by one such person. Best auditing sessions I ever had! So while some may have this attitude or awareness naturally, I believe that most have to learn and get considerable experience with auditing others to come to that state of mind.

        I really think that most of the problems in the Church would dissipate if staff were trained up as auditors, and required to demonstrate that they could be competent and successful auditors before they took management positions. I also think that much of the troubles and woes of OTs would dissipate as they worked their way up the training side of the bridge.

        Unfortunately, the training side of the bridge appears to be non-functioning in the Church, with all kinds of arbitraries barring that route. i.e. you have to do the “Basics” first, you have to do a Purif first, you have to donate to IAS, you have to…

        The original HQS course has been hugely altered (it was changed in the early 1980s), with many of the processes that were taught and co-audited gone from the checksheet and moved further up on the bridge. And the original Communication course, which did train people on the auditing skills they needed is no longer available at the public levels, replaced by the rather socially oriented Success Through Communications course, which has absolutely NO emphasis on anything but social communication.

        1. No offense taken. I agree with your post. Also; I did the original HQS course with lots of auditing of objectives and ARC SW.

          1. This explains a lot that you’re a different OT VIII !
            HQS means QALIFIED !
            There you learn the BASICS, not by reading 20 books and answering silly questions by writing down excerpts from the books.
            If a being understands and can apply the ARC-Triangle, the comm. formula and the other basics of HQS he’s already a little OT !

        2. “The original HQS course has been hugely altered (it was changed in the early 1980s), with many of the processes that were taught and co-audited gone from the checksheet and moved further up on the bridge. And the original Communication course, which did train people on the auditing skills they needed is no longer available at the public levels, replaced by the rather socially oriented Success Through Communications course, which has absolutely NO emphasis on anything but social communication.”

          Time coincidence with this change in the original communications course was my removal from the post of TRs Course Word Clearer at Flag. Up to that point I was word clearing the TRs Course students using LRH materials to an understanding that have now been expressed in KHTK essay #1: LOOKING. The TRs course students were having such a win that they once spontaneously clapped for me at the end of the course (before clapping for LRH, of course). Soon after that I was removed from post for interpreting LRH materials in a squirrel way and sent to Cramming. That was the end of my carrier as TRs Course Word Clearer.


        3. When I was TRs Course Word Clearer, C/Ses like David Mayo were sending tough HGC PCs to me for word clearing. TRs were considered as a part of hatting a pc in many instances. Of course, if a preclear cannot LOOK, he or she cannot be audited. Please see >KHTK 1A: LOOKING: INTRODUCTION


      1. “And the beginning of your career as an Explorer of Free Will :)”

        I guess so. By 1983 I was out of Sea Org and back with my loving family in India.


  13. I just would ke to add my 2 cents about the subject.
    I don’t think that the problem has to do with trained or not trained OTs. This may have an influence, but is not the real why behind that situation. Good auditing will produce a being that has more theta – arc and understanding and compassion – and it will also demonstrate this in his relation to his environment and his doingness.
    It’s a very old justification (rumour, ennemy line) that the SO and staffs are spreading around about their own products: ” Look at those downtone OTs ! I’m more OT then them, but only did the purif !”.
    LRH says somewhere that the Auditor Code is the natural behaviour of clears. I’ve observed it that when somebody had a good session, he was then such a good, cute, kind being, even the biggest bastards.
    But next day the guys were back in their old valences and the wins gone (= PTS) as they have seen in the meantime an IAS reg, Maa, a registrar that explained them that they are not taking enough responsibility, evaluating and invalidating them.
    Or they keep their wins and come back in their Orgs, where already the staffs are waiting for to show those guys what they now have all to do, to demonstrate that they are real OTs and will try to involve them in all kinds of confusing and irreal activities as CF, OT Committee, FSMing…etc. and as soon that he doesn’t conform he’ll get reports and as he is worried about his next 6 month check, to not have too much trouble and to pay more sec checks, he’ll compromise and loose his wins.
    I have seen staffs getting orgasms because of OTs that failed and having lots of fun to write reports about OTs to their solo c/s.
    Their computation is that it’s them that are saving the world, even when they don’t have the possibibilities to go up the bridge and not those theetie wheetie OTs.
    This shows that staffs have lost any reality about what their hat is. They don’t think that they are producing real OTs, they don’t even know what they have to produce.
    And I would like to congratulate Geir that he never compromised with his own reality and he’s propably the only person on planet earth that said “no” to David Miscavige and didn’t go PTS towards him and instantly saw what he really is. So, he was able to keep his wins.
    Last time I’ve seen such shining, beautiful OTs as Geir is was about 30 years ago. Any OT at this time was just pure theta (trained or not) they would come into a room and everybody was key out. They were emanating so much love, granting of beingness and really putting the lights on in the spaces they were, that the mest was just shining and beautiful, when 1 minute before everything was dark. No status, no funny behaviour, just nothing and beingness.
    As a 17 years old boy I met Mario Fenninger (gave a concert in our org), he just sat down at our table in a restaurant near the org. He didn’t mind, and as I can remember he was an OT7 then (1975). He was so interested in us young people, told many fun stories and explained so many things about music. Just pure fun.
    Or I met Dora and Peter Green, some of the first NOTs completions in 79. They were products, atomic bombs of theta ! As they lived in the same house I did, we had several dinners together and never did I’ve any feeling of inferiority towards them, in the contrary they were empowering me. I’d the feeling of being part of the same group and status didn’t count. Or Lamont Johnson I’d also the chance to meet ! Just fun and laughter !
    Some weeks ago I was at a party with 3 OTs VIII and 6 OT7 and I mediocre OT IV and my wife only Clear. It was very interesting, very stiff. Like an english comedy with lots of 1.1 old lords sitting at a table and all hating each other but nevertheless faking being nice. Really weird. We were shunned to some degree by most, because we don’t move further up the bridge. Any party we’d with our no Scientology friends were 100x more fun.
    It’s really a sad story, but orgs today are no safe environments as they used to be long time ago, when there was lots of arc, laughter and action. No shunning, no status, just one group.
    Lrh says somewhere that auditors are sometimes not happy about their products. They go clear and continue to live dull life. He means that those people confound the rust of the chains, that in fact are gone, with the chains. And perhaps, some 100 years later the pc sudden realises that the chains are gone and he’ll edify a statue for the auditor.
    Many of those OTs, you are talking about Geir, have tons of rust and didn’t realise yet the chains are gone. So they are a huge potential as soon the suppression is gone and they are treated as what they are. Also in their next life they’ll act quite differently (Theta Mest Theory) and be quite less aberrated as not being in a suppressed environment anymore.
    The potential is huge and there is enormous amount of hope.


  14. The reason for turning down the job offer? He didn’t want to contribute to such degraded beings (DBs)!

    Yes. For them those hit by trisomy 21 are out-exchange.
    You have a heart of gold, Geir, and know this attitude is wrong. Unfortunately, there will always be people who will pick these parts from the tech that fit their needs to justify going the easy route.

    “I am always willing to help. By my own creed a being is only as valuable as he can serve others.” LRH
    (from HCO PL 18 Dec 61 “Standing Orders”)

    Also read this post by this independent which really hit me:

    “Knowing” that anyone less fortunate will have more luck in his next body makes it very easy to justify any crime against a living being. The same thing by the way holds true for any religion like Islam.

  15. These “OTs” obviously have no clue what Scientology really is about nor do they sound as if they’ve ever studied any basic Scientology. This is the new brand of “OTs” coming down the line? Incredulous to me that someone would consider it getiing into too much “entheta” to help another or “beneath them” to assist someone in need.

    Now, I’ve heard the words “Dev-T”, “responsible for his condition”, “needs to get his motivators handled”, “should go down to the org for handling”, “is too PTS “, and many other justifications for not helping someone…but “not getting into such entheta” from an OTVlll is like an oxymoron conceptually! (I, being one, think that idea is very very funny). Jus’ sayin’

    1. And what about you Sherry, do you feel you have developed any paranormal abilities such as medium/psychic type of senses, remote viewing or similair?

  16. Geir,

    I have some general questions out of pure curiosity.

    What do you think of mediums? From what I’ve understood you have some “medium capabilities” of your own? Just out of pure curiosity, have you ever thought about working as a medium/psychic?

    What are your thoughts on all the relatives hanging around their living ancestors? I figure they should go away and take a new body instead of hanging around their children etc? Most mediums contact the persons deceased relatives but it makes me a little but suspicious that so many of them are still hanging around. What do you think?

    1. Hi Hub; Nice with a question 🙂

      It seems many beings hangs around their loved ones for some time after death. Apparently there are many that takes many years to get to the point where they pick up a new body (out of shock, disbelief, love for someone, revenge or a host of other reasons).

      In the market of mediums, I think there are lots of charlatans. Lots. I myself does not have stable enough abilities to consider it a solid product to sell.

      1. I’m checking out some videoclips on YouTube and mediums on TV, but some of them have too many “hits”, even considering that research could have been done before the show, so I get the feeling some of them are for real.

  17. Maybe the OT’s unwilling to help others are afraid they are actually unable to help. If they know their own gains are not what they themselves expected, that they haven’t truly achieved what they had read and heard for years that an OT is supposed to be able to do at that point on the bridge, maybe they’re afraid of not being really OT.

    And if that’s the case, they must also fear being discovered. So maybe their haughtiness and superiority is really fear and the old “missed withhold.”

    And dm, telling everyone to cut their comm lines with people below 2.5 on the tone scale is the perfect excuse no to get involved in actually handling all that life they’re supposed now to be able to handle.

    Life is messy. Frequently, it’s below 2.5 on the tone scale. Sometimes it presents itself in the form of someone with a chromosomal abnormality, or someone with relationship problems, or someone without a job.

    If you’re only able to handle life that is already in good shape, what good are you?

  18. Lunamoth is absolutely correct! If you have not had good gains, why in the world would you even try to help others. Apathetic OT’s do not want to help because so many have lives, families and finances that have been destroyed by out tech.

  19. It seems to me that every which way you go is so restricted in the Church of Scientology. You are not really free to use the technology. You have to get permission. You have to have a license. You have to justify what you want to do with it to somebody in the Church. And that somebody may have only the dimmest understanding of what Scientology is or is not. You have to keep your area “clean” to continue to do your auditing, i.e. pass your elegibility. You have to have the right “status” to qualify. You can’t just do auditor training any more, you have to do the the “basics” before you can train. You have to be careful and cautious and above all never do anything that might jeopardize your status. And so on. The technology doesn’t get used anywhere except as approved by the Church. And getting approval means opening yourself up to all kinds of controlling mechanisms, being pushed for stats, being supervised and micromanaged. It is completley obnoxious. No surprise to me that OTs would avoid any area that could be seen to be questionable as it can open you up to all kinds of “interviews” and hours of explaining oneself. Who has time in a normal life for that sort of thing? Hell, I cross-flowed a WISE arbitration that consumed thousands of hours of people’s time, to no particular conclusion. I’ve personally been subjected to demands to “come in” and explain what I am doing based on some utterly stupid reports made on me. It happened one too many time and I just refused to spend any more of my precious time on the nonsense.

    But there are OTs who do help and do lots of good works. They just don’t broadcast it. I certainly never did after a while for the Church is a jealous mistress and wanted me to work on their projects and on their terms and under their orders — my work on other areas was seen as “taking away” from their projects and concerns.

    There is merit to the invalidation / evaluation of OTs as well. I was told that I was a poor excuse for an OT because I was not able to raise $50,000 on an immediate basis to donate to the Church. Eventually I just told all Church staff that I was tapped, broke and just didn’t have the funds. Of course, it had to be true when I went to confessional so I really was tapped, broke and didn’t have the funds.

    Its a funny thing that in attempting to avoid being harassed, controlled, ordered and demanded of, I ended up making some pretty sour postulates and what do you know? They came true! My solution became to refuse to talk to any Church staff member about my life, my plans, my activities or anything else. And that meant not talking to any Church staff members at all because invariably they want me to explain everything about me and my life so they can “handle” me and my apparent “disaffection.” Eventually my solution became to disappear from their vicinity and provide no access whatsoever to communicating with me.

      1. From Marty’s blog.
        I think it fits in very nicely here and is an example of Maria’s conclusions. Maria I’m in love with your writing !
        NEW STORY
        I have been in Scientology for over 25 years. During that time I trained to Class V Interned in Milan. I have never been on staff.
        I have been a rather successful businessman and always had gains in Scientology auditing and Rundowns until the year 2001, when for a reason that is a yet unclear to me,
        I was made to do 10 intensives of sec-check, mainly cleaning cleans, once spending 3 hours on a question that asked if I had been a member of the CIA, when I am an Italian
        Citizen and my only trips to the United States have been to get auditing in Clearwater, Florida, at the Flag Land Base.
        My auditors at Flag, when I told them I felt clean, were, while in session, intensely hostile to me. More than once when I was literally driven to despair and on the edge of bursting in a cry of despair,
        pursing what I felt
        was a false read, I was told by my Flag auditors, with contempt in their voice, to “knock it off”. and “fess off to the withold”
        I was made to redo Solo NOTs all over again, when I felt there was nothing wrong with it. I was told that it was IMPOSSIBLE to get a blow or EP of a process on
        that level unless I had a blowdown on each and every action. This is based on a confidential “Directive” blow anything written by David Miscavige that
        “anyone who claims to get a blow or process EP on Solo NOTs without a full Blowdown is simply at the case level of “DUB-IN” and imagining things. When I politely queries that a
        non-LRH directive could not alter LRH written HCOBs, I was immediately routed to Ethics and told in unclear that questioning the validity of the writings of David Miscavige
        was in itself a suppressive act.
        I was sent back for more sec-checking. Each time I said I had an ARCX, a disagreement or even the few times I burst into tears, I was asked one question and one question only: “What withold has been missed”.
        I somehow managed to get through the wall of sec-checking and the redo of Solo NOTs, at a cost of more than 80,000 Euros, once I learned the valuable session that it
        is no longer safe to tell what one thinks in session, and the only other choice
        given to me by the Ethics officer, over unquestioning obedience was being declared a Supressive person and that each of my Scientology employees (more than a dozen of them)
        would be told to disconnect from a destructively as possible, the goal being apparently to make me bankrupt and destitute in the process.
        I redid OT VIII on the Freewinds. This was not a pleasant experience. Even the few times I was allowed to go on shore, I was being continually watched by my HCO Escort, (security guard)
        in a manner that was reminiscent of the treatment given to Westerners when they visited and Iron Curtain country at the height of the Cold War..
        I started to question within myself what level of Degradation Scientology had fell into…
        In the 5 years since I “completed” OT VII and VIII for the second time, I found myself, for the first time in my life not doing well and in a state of apathy toward
        my life, my family and my business.

        (he goes on to say that he got auditing outside the Church by a well known auditor and turned his life around…he is fine now)

        1. I really find that story hard to believe. I’ve been to the ship many many times and never saw anyone on 8 being “watched”. Anyone else that can confirm this kind of stuff? If DM’s being taken as gospel then the church is certainly doomed.

  20. I followed you recent link to this post and I been on the receiving end of one of the comments Geir posted about. I still get it from some on the Independent field as well and they wonder why I get grumpy.

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