The date is set. The venue is booked. Noise will be made.
Yes, the book is in Norwegian (for now).
English translation of the title: “Nineteen eightyfour. My way into Scientology’s inner secrets – and out again.”
If you are in Oslo on the 18th of September, you are welcome to join the party (including OSA – The Church of Scientology’s intelligence and dirty tricks arm).
Links:
The book release facebook event
The event at Litteraturhuset
My book at the publisher’s page
(Use Google translate as needed)
Geir Isene - uncut 
Looking so much forward to the launch of this exciting book!
With love ♥ … from the other half of the Church of Scientology’s most hated couple.
You are not the most hated couple for Scn … it is Marty and Mosey. So please, don’t think so highly of yourself
Joke, mister. Joke.
Although, Mosey is not openly critical of Scientology like Anette.
btw; Welcome 🙂
LOL. Dissention even for this title?
Just shoot me now. Hahaha
Dissention? I took it tongue in cheek. But hey! Geir is right about comparison and a good point. I’m seeing Anette on many different venues and this girl is going….. supah!
Wow, I love the title AND the book title, too!
Sorry, I meant to say I love the title AND the book COVER, too!
Hi writerchique, nice to see you around. I hope you have already found enough about ” Let’s talk about ESP, reading minds…be able to see things from afar, real psychics, mediums…that type of thing…” as you postulated songbird. there is something to share with us by now ?
Very inspired title, and good luck, Geir! Is there a connection with 1984’s Orwell?
Yes it is 🙂
My view: if Orwell had lived a little longer and had gone into the way life and the mind operate, he would sure have written another book with the title: Life is the Big
Brother. Life is the ‘thought police’. The Observer. As with every thought-postulate the person expresses a wish, Life pleases the person with the effect. As you say, Geir: placebo(=please). Or, as you wrote in OT8 about your win ‘ I am ultimately responsible for my experiences’. So I trust you. As you said ‘ I would do it again’ (the Bridge). Also, recently posted ‘be the water’. My conclusion is: one (the human being) is both the water (flow of life) and the bridge (body and mind).
There is a novel by James Redfield The Secret of Shambhala which is a fascinating
reading describing how one is responsible for one’s experiences and how life takes care of one so that the person can have an adventurous life as well as realize it fully.
Goodbye to the UFO cult and welcome the real modern science of mental health.
Bravo! Can’t wait to read it in English. 🙂
Yes english please. We english speaking people need your words.
I’m very much looking forward to reading the English version when it becomes available, Geir! And, regarding Orwell’s “1984”, here’s some suggested reading: Ira Levin, author of “Rosemary’s Baby”, wrote a book titled “This Perfect Day”, which has been compared to 1984 for the obvious similarities. If you read it, I think you’ll see that it much more closely parallels the Church of Scientology experience, including elements of OSA, and those ex-Scn’s playing the game of being consumed with opposing the C of S. I read it in the 1970’s, before my own experience with the C of S, and much of what I’ve experienced and observed over the years since is reminiscent of what takes place in “This Perfect Day”.
Looking forward to it 🙂
Thank you for helping uncover the deceptions of one Mr David Miscavige. I, for one, am looking forward to reading the English version of your book. I also find it most interesting that the COS can, and did, declare their ONLY Norwegian OTVIII to be an SP!?!
Crazy.
‘Kept on living life as it was meant to be with you and your awesome lady and remember; a crazy cult can’t keep the smart ones down.
Caio!
Thanks. Cool quote there at the end 🙂
& Welcome!
Call me greedy but … any idea when the English translation will be available in the US? Good luck with the launch!
Thanks. No idea about an English translation yet. It would depend on the demand, I guess. I will talk to the publisher about it in detail after the Norwegian launch.
Surely there are a lot more people in the world who can read English, than people who are able to read Norwegian?
Surely 🙂
„Nineteeneightyfour …“ – a very suitable title. Great image of the cover too. I’m looking forward to the English version of your book and your experiences and observations.
I read “1984” while being in the Sea Org. Although I saw parallels, the thought that I was living part of the Orwellian life (instead of what I thought I was doing/living) was so overwhelming and scary at the time, especially with all the missing data to connect the dots, that the thought-stop took care of the cognitive dissonance.
Some of the comparison here: http://www.xenu.net/archive/1984/
Thanks for that link 🙂
I’ve got your other book, so I guess I’ll buy this one too 😉
😉
Congrats Geir! Its really the culmination of a long haul isn’t it? I have been glad to have shared a part of that long haul with you — can’t even tell you how much I’ve learned along the way, and how completely my view into and out of Scientology has shifted, and yet in some ways has not shifted as I have sifted through to my own core understandings and realities. It has been an extraordinary experience.
I can’t read Norwegian so I too will be waiting on the English version!
+1
Congratulations and thank you for your invitation. We are dying to be there.
sure OSA is always on fire, when new books about scn are released. *ggggg
*ggggg indeed 🙂
SPs are my favorite Scientologists! Congratulations, Geir.
Hi Geir, when will your book be released in English? ….and if you aren’t Co$ #1 most hated couple, you are anti-scn most glamorous couple. 🙂
Oops, just saw your response to this higher up in the thread.
And I just added some more info 😉
🙂
English version of the book… it just came out in Norway today, media coverage all week. Will have to sit down with my publisher in some days to discuss this. I know they are looking for a US publisher to release the English version…
Geir, I wanted to include my best wishes on this historical blog post announcing your book release. Congratulations and kudos on your accomplishment! 🙂
Love it, just love it that you are back marildi-Marilyn! Missed you! We sure want your light and love here!
Yes – she (and Katageek/Bunkai) is off moderation. I decided this on a whim. And to add; I am not convinced she is OSA.
Really, Geir? It doesn’t sound like you to do something on a whim – i.e. on “arbitrary thought or impulse”. I was thinking it was intentional, based on a change of mind. A change of heart. Something like the lyrics in the “Marilyn” video that Marianne posted: “After you get what you want, you don’t want it.” 😉
But thanks very much for making it known that you aren’t convinced I’m an OSA agent. With that, you restored my faith in you and your ability to observe for yourself! 🙂
p.s. For some reason, I never received email notification of your comment. I did get one for Marianne’s, and that was when I saw yours.
OK. Don’t know about the e-mail notifications.
It was on a whim. Being whimsical today.
Haha, just today? Can you ‘keep up’ being spontaneous and fanciful? (‘being’ meaning a process..). HaHa…once I reached ‘power’ during the TR-s…the SUP said: keep it up! Cannot describe how I felt. Then of course I couldn’t….now I know, how can one ‘keep up’ which one is? And you are joking…you said many times that you do what you fancy…
Okay. Then I’ll go with Marianne’s interpretation of whim. 🙂
Btw, I don’t remember that you ever put katageek on moderation. I know that you posted comments to the effect that he appeared to be purposely inflammatory and because of that you said the same thing to him that you said to me – that if you yourself were an OSA agent you would do what he was doing. But his “inflammatory” comments were always on the topic of free will and the existence of a soul – which he doesn’t believe exists. And that belief would go along with him being a Buddhist since most sects don’t believe in a soul. He even has a blog where he posts a lot about the same subject. Anyway, I don’t know how I could have missed that you put him on moderation or that his posts were moderated. I’m sure I would have protested!
I am sure you would.
Marildi, in a no-mind no-time decision one does not change one’s heart as one is acting as the One-Heart! The video is tricky, there is more to it than to the eyes and the words to the ears….
‘There is more to it than to the eyes and the words to the ears’
‘Highly evolved people have their own conscience as pure law’ Lao Tzu
Geir, like your decision! Decision has no time in it, so sure it was on a whim! Just pure! Life! You!
Thanks marianne! Missed you too! Btw, the video does capture my essence. 😀
Hi Gier
Interesting all what you say ! Love the way you say shit : ) !!
I have good insight into the major outpoints of Scientology and its management !!
Because you mentioned it so many times I would like to ask you one sorry 2 personal questions which would help me plenty !!
Q: how long did you spend on OTII !!
Did you cover the material once over or less than once or maybe 10 times over the whole pattern ( Platens) ?? And also time wise roughly?
That’s it !!
Many Regards DL
Need to know only this please !! Thanks and good luck for this project of disclosing outpoints !!
OT2: Less than one time through, perhaps 50 hours or so. Overran by a few sessions, easily fixed right away.
Hi Geir. Your reply above is here but not the comment of the person named Douglas, whose partial comment can only be seen on the email notification. Also, where you have “Recent comments” it says “There are no public comments available to display.” Have you changed the operating basis for your blog?
And what’s new? 🙂
It’s an issue with the mobile version of WP.
That’s sort of Greek to me, but I get that there’s an “issue.”
I’ve missed you. How’s it going?
Had an great talk in Trondheim yesterday on Scientology. Full house with more attendees than the CoS has been able to muster in their 35 years in Norway. They got a nuanced picture of Scientology. And Xenu got attention.
Good for you. On Xenu – like a lot of people, you probably don’t think that’s a true story, at least not literally. I’m curious, why do you think it works for people? Do you have a theory on that?
Btw, after I wrote the other comment, I had a funny feeling you might think I was implying something with the word “issue” – I wasn’t! I just meant that I got there was some kind of issue, in a technical sense. And the above is a straightforward question – no undercurrent of anything at all.
I actually haven’t heard that much in terms of substantial gains from OT3. At least not if you subtract the pure Placebo effect where many people will get gains no matter what you ask then to do. And one must also subtract the egent of having to justify time and money spent. On top of that you must subtract the effect of secrecy and “specialness” that some will get a boost from.
Thanks. If I remember right, from what I read, on both OT III and VII the pc is auditing BT’s on Incidents I and II, among other things. What I’m curious about is whether the BT’s do in fact run those incidents and the meter phenomena indicate that they are actually real incidents.
Incident 2 & 1 is only run on OT 3 and OT 4. Another technique is used on OT 5 and above.
The E-meter cannot indicate whether an incident is real or not. As LRH himself pointed out, imaginary incidents may read just as well as any real ones.
And the e-meter cannot be used to verify what you are running is a BT or any other type of charge.
There is basically no supporting evidence for the OT 3 story and no supporting evidence for BTs. There are however supporting evidence to the contrary (on both).
Ah, thanks for the correction about which levels Incidents I and II are run on entities. What you say comes back to me now as what I read.
On the point of imaginary incidents, even though they might read, they run differently, per LRH’s research. Here’s a quote from HFP:
“An imaginary incident follows certain patterns. An actual incident is entirely unmistakable. There is a standard behavior in a facsimile of an actual experience: It behaves in a certain way; the individual gets the efforts and perceptions with clarity and the content of the incident expands and remains fairly constant on several recountings. An imaginary incident contracts in content ordinarily and the individual seeks to keep up his interest then by embroidering it. Further, it has no constant efforts in it.”
Can you comment on this in relation to your experience in running “entities” on Incidents I and II – using that word “entities” in the regular English meaning so as to fit either thetans or one’s own mocked-up identities, whichever of the two it happens to be that is being run.
I will comment on your original question regarding the e-meter verifying an incident as real: It cannot. Regardless of the above quote, the E-METER cannot distinguish real from imaginary incidents. See: https://isene.me/2013/05/09/the-invalidity-of-the-ot3-story/
And the above quote is not really relevant as what one is asked to do on OT3 is to run another being through an incident, and it isn’t done by recounting or repetitiveness. One is to push the being through those incidents. It is on a via. The above quote applies to running one’s own incidents.
So I reiterate; There is no evidence of the OT 3 story being real. And there is no evidence of BTs/entities as actual, separate beings as dictated by LRH.
Okay, putting aside the matter of the e-meter, I was mainly looking at the fact that the pre-OT is the auditor and the entities are his pc’s, and I’m wondering whether or not those pc’s appear do run the incidents.
Maybe you’ve answered where you said “One is to push the being through those incidents.” But I don’t know what you mean by “push them through.”
I suspect the Pre-OT can vividly imagine BTs running those incidents.
“pushing through” is by means of “telepathy”.
Or… by imagination 🙂
“I suspect the Pre-OT can vividly imagine BTs running those incidents.”
I don’t think you suspect that Dianetics auditors are imagining their pc’s to be running incidents. So my question is – what’s the actual difference? There are commands, the meter reads are consulted, and the EP is as expected. See what I mean – I haven’t gotten what the difference is.
The difference is that there are no PCs there – they are imaginary. There are no evidence of any pc in sight. None.
Haven’t you just stated your own premise as the basis for your conclusion? All I’m saying is that if what you say is true re the auditing on OT III being imaginary, why wouldn’t that be the same for Dianetics auditing? The techniques are the same. That’s why it doesn’t compute.
You may be quite right that the entities aren’t beings but simply one’s own creations, but even in that case it seems to me that the pre-OT would be “imagining” far too many of the same incidents – and that far too many pre-OT’s imagine the same incidents – for this to be an Occam’s razor theory. And it doesn’t fit with the principles of auditing that I know – which don’t rely much on imagination or placebo, or any of the other things you mentioned, as a workable means to huge case gains.
You probably said, but I’ve forgotten – what do you think is the reason for your own gains on OT III?
1) The techniques are not the same. 2) A person can and does get gain by imaginary stuff. 3) There are no pcs in sight – it is all in the Pre-OTs imagination – dictated by LRH – they all get the theory first and then “run” it – no coincidence that they happen to “run” the same thing). 4) The burden of proof lies with the person claiming the existence of something – not on the critic claiming it isn’t true. There are no evidence for BTs or the OT 3 story. None. Occam’s razor applies… = it is BS. 5) I believe I got gains from OT 3 because I get gains from most anything I happen to do that involves the mind or the spirit. I think I successfully moved stuff around in my mind and that happened to be really good for me.
Question for you:
1. Do you believe the OT 3 story is factual, that it actually happened as LRH describes?
2. Do you believe that people are infested by BTs?
Okay, got your viewpoint. Just one question on this:
“I think I successfully moved stuff around in my mind and that happened to be really good for me.”
Was that just a matter of your own personal ability, and something you might have accomplished with any number of other techniques, or do you consider that the process itself was efficacious in enabling you to do exactly that – move stuff around in your mind?
I think many process could have accomplished the same result.
Different with OT 2 where I got dichotomies shaken directly.
Correction on “whether or not those pc’s appear do run the incidents” – it should say “whether or not those pc’s do run the incidents.”
The issue is that on the mobile version when I reply to a new commenter, it doesn’t automatically approve the comment as in the web version. I need to do that manually. Easy to forget. No need to be suspicious 😉
Ha! Geir, a funny thing just happened. I was about to add a p.s. to my last post to say something about my own ideas on this OT III subject, and then I saw this last part of your last comment – which, strangely enough, was cut off on the email notification:
“Question for you:
“1. Do you believe the OT 3 story is factual, that it actually happened as LRH describes?
“2. Do you believe that people are infested by BTs?”
This is the second time today I wondered if we were in telepathic comm. Maybe you got better at telepathic communication that you thought. 🙂
1. What I was about to say is that it’s conceivable to me that LRH made up that OT III story – knowing it would produce a particular response in the pc that would initiate just what you said: “moving stuff around,” and in a highly beneficial way. That is FAR more believable than the idea that any old narrative would have the potential to produce the kind of results OT III produces in the majority of pcs. There was definitely something LRH was ON to, I would say. A method to his “madness”. It may have been the best, or only, way he could conceive of to handle a certain type of aberration or mental/spiritual barrier
2. As for whether people are infested by BT’s, I tend to lean in the direction that there is truth to this. It isn’t just LRH’s fanciful idea: There are many others who talk about guardian angels and/or demons. And to dismiss the idea of “infestations” of them just because it seems too strange isn’t a good enough reason, as I think you would agree. For me personally, I get some pretty interesting somatics in relation to this idea!
Another thing is that there’s no evidence to dispute it, as there is with the OT III volcanoes. Nonetheless, it could be something similar to what I was saying about OT III – i.e. it may simply be a way to “move stuff around.” Btw, did you know that David St. Lawrence works a lot with people on the issue of their body thetans? He has a different approach from LRH’s, however.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss this with me!
Here’s an excerpt from one of David St Lawrence’s articles:
“Actually, this ‘secret data’ [in the CoS] about entities and spirits of all kinds has been known for thousands of years and is part of the religious lore of ancient and modern religions. Exorcism in one form or other has been practiced for a very long time. Prayers to spirit guides is a part of many modern belief systems.
“The belief in harmful and beneficial spirits is widespread today in all walks of life. Many people spend their lives being haunted by hostile spirits while others guide their lives through the help they receive from entities which they call spirit guides.
“I prefer to use entity instead of spirit, thetan, body thetan, or any of the other terms which have been used to describe a life unit.
“I feel that Ron Hubbard made a significant contribution to mankind’s progress by applying an analytical approach to learning the capabilities of these spiritual beings.”
http://workabletechnology.com/?p=424
I see a major difference between Hubbard’s concept of Body Thetans and other notions of Guardian Angels or Demons or such. Huge difference. Hubbard has devised a very, very specific theory of massive infestation of unaware thetans degenerated to a level where they are akin to pebbles on the beach and need to be waken up and audited out of their infesteous existence.
1. Has it got to do with amnesia, or rather, the cause of amnesia?
also
2. With THE ability to create (whatever illusions, mest or finer)?
1. No. That is LRH’s sales pitch for OT 8.
2. Nah
Thanks. For the ‘Nah’ also…like its playfulness.
Geir, one time, years ago, I was FDS’ing a student who told me about having created another thetan. Several months ago, I read about this kind of thing in the article at the link I posted above. In the article there are some excerpts from LRH tape lecture 20 October 1954 “The Parts of Man, Overt Acts and Motivators.” Here are a few quotes from those transcript excerpts:
———————————-
“He can actually create another thetan, just like that, bang! He can duplicate himself. That is to say, he can give birth to or create or bring into being an entirely different life unit – an entirely new, different life unit – which in its turn can have a full personality, which can have full determinism, which can do everything and anything that he himself can do and can be as powerful as himself, or more powerful than himself, according to its endowment.”
“Basically, the thetan can simply create, without any system, another living being. Now, there’s an important thing. This is an ability of the thetan. But it is not a part of the thetan.”
“A person is totally capable of doing this. A man can get himself thoroughly haunted by living beings – living, breathing beings – simply because he can duplicate himself. This is not machinery, and it is not part of the thetan, by definition. But it is the thetan moving outward through the second dynamic of creation into a third dynamic of becoming a group.”
————————————
I bring this up because I’ve talked to several OT’s who are just as certain that the entities audited on the NOTs rundowns are beings as you are sure they are your creations. Is it possible there is truth to both? Also, from a write-up of OT VIII that I read online, I got that near the end of the level the pc is told to create some theta. Can you confirm that?
Nope. Nothing like that on 8.
I am sure it is possible to imagine that one created a thetan or a millon thetans or that the Marcabians do control the world scene or that Xenu is imprisoned in a mountain and at the same time is a Swiss Banker that would lend Hubbard money or that evil being on a planet around Polaris is beaming us with dark energies or the reptilians are… you get the point.
Now, my point is that any claim of the existence of something must be accompanied by proof of its existence. It is all to easy to claim whatever, but in a sane discussion, that must be carried by proof.
Got it. That write-up was by someone who did OT VIII in 1991, I think it was, and rumor line has it that the level has changed from one time to another.
I meant to ask you about what you said earlier, that with OT 2 you “got dichotomies shaken directly.” What do you figure was happening there? Would you agree that you actually did have those opposing goals in your “memory banks” (or whatever term you prefer to use)? And that as a result of discharging the charge you “cleared out” some things that resulted in spiritual gains?
I did have issues with dichotomies – but they weren’t installed there by Xenu’s henchmen or evil psychs. It was good to get them shaken.
Marildi: Is it possible there is truth to both?
Chris: Of course it can be true. Can it be true that drinking wine during Holy Communion turns to the blood of Jesus Christ through transmutation? What proof could be offered against this? Christ’s Blood pumped back out from the stomach of a parishioner must obviously transmutate back into wine upon being pumped out? Truth is relative, conditioned, and impermanent.
I just wanted to know what was true for Geir. For example, I know people who will tell you that there is no mistaking it when they are in telepathic communication with a being, whether a BT or some other thetan. And for some people it is very real to be in comm with an animal, like a horse or a cat. Ever had any experiences like this,, yourself?
Have you? What were they?
‘Maybe you got better at telephatic communication…’ What I feel/get in your latest answers is that there is a change in your com…kind of not ‘creating/movingpushing’ mest, that is using mest as a via. Feels like ‘real alive com’, the words are kind of decorations. Very-very nice, Geir!
Also, a kind of ‘knowingness’ of life is coming through….especially from your last comment. In a very fine way. Even had a ‘cognition’ about waking up unaware ‘thetans’. Thanks. Your com with Marildi is very interesting.
Hi Marianne! I’m curious about your cog re waking up “thetans” – if you don’t mind telling about it.
Hi marildi,
Sorry, it is ‘gone’. Tried to recall it but only with partial success. I guess something is in ‘progress’. Will write about it when it’s full.
Glad you are here, missed you! I am enjoying your com ‘cycle’ with Geir! Kind of very theta, which I so love!
I know how that can be, Marianne. Cogs often seem to as-is, don’t they?
Thanks for the welcoming words from you too. 🙂
Marildi: “What I was about to say is that it’s conceivable to me that LRH made up that OT III story – knowing it would produce a particular response in the pc that would initiate just what you said: “moving stuff around,” and in a highly beneficial way.”
Chris: “Hi Marildi! Fancy seeing you around here. I was just thinking how much sense your comment makes especially when compared to the premise that the fossil record was put there in the earth by God to test our faith in the Bible. You are making quite the case for true belief and faith in the OT levels. – Missed you love.”
Hey Chris – missed y’all too. 🙂
Geir says he thinks many processes could have accomplished the same result as OT III, but that it was different with OT 2 where he “got dichotomies shaken directly.” And knowing Geir, I don’t think he would chalk that up to “belief and faith.” Do you?
I would.
Honest answer.
Why not?
Marildi: “I appreciate your willingness to discuss this with me!”
Chris: “You’ve an emeter and a solo auditor’s course under your belt. Why don’t you give it a whirl? There are many out here willing to coach. And you most certainly never will be the same!”
OK, thi smay be a tangent, but what is the deal with the “OTIII volcanoes”, per your post – “Another thing is that there’s no evidence to dispute it, as there is with the OT III volcanoes.” What’s the DOX on this? The OTIII incident supposedly happened what – 70,0000,000 to 75.000.000 years ago?
The super continent Pangea only started to break up 200,000,000 years ago, and the continental drift had only been in effect on its pieces for about 125,000,000 years at the time the OTIII Incident supposedly occurred. This would mean the continents had only drifted about 65% towards their current locations relative to
each other, yes?
Who actually knows the details of what the planet’s geography and geology was actually like then? If we went back in time and orbited it as it was then, we might barely recognize it. The continents would not be where we find them today, much less volcanoes, mountains etc. The Himalayas would not yet have been formed by India impacting the Eurasian continent, etc.
I am just curious what the arguments against the historical accuracy of the incident actually are.
Wow, maybe what I’ve heard is wrong. I bought the claim that there was something wrong with the OT III story as regards the volcanoes being in those particular locations 75 million years ago.
Yay, Val is here!
Here here why not too … Who discovered the R6 bank … Who ever layed out these platens must have known enough to know who layed them into the reactive bank .. Think about that for a moment please !! Doug
Maybe Geir thinks it was just a lucky guess – or would that be scores of lucky guesses on all those goals that are listed in the platens? And they are produce huge gains by sheer faith and belief. It seems others just aren’t as good of guessers as Ron was. 😉
It is quite easy to come up with thousands of dichotomies. My guess is that people would get great gains even when they would run them in a totally different order. Our, if one believe LRH’s backdrop story for them, then the psychs masteted the mind millions of years before LRH. Which is it?
I agree that it would be possible for a lot of individuals to come up with scores and scores, maybe thousands, of dichotomies – but would those dichtomies read (indicating reality) and run on a pc? It doesn’t seem likely to me, just from my sense of logic and odds – because there must be millions, or billions, or trillions or more possibilities. The list of dichotomies that LRH came up with, however he did it, is some pretty imaginative goals. And unless your viewpoint is that any random group of imaginative dichotomies would be real and would run, then it’s not just luck that LRH came up with them – even if it was nothing but his ingenuity and understanding of the workings of the mind, rather than having anything to do with implants. Be fair with me on this, Geir, like you always ask me to be – don’t just dismiss it without truly giving it some thought.
If it actually was implants, there would be no real cleverness involved. Per my understanding, the only thing the implanters would need to know would be the principle of opposing goals, because the fact that they are opposed is what keeps them “hung up.” Such goals are installed with the purpose of creating confusion and ineffectiveness in a being. Also, I think I read that the implanters were rather arbitrary about it and would not always implant the same goals on the next batch of beings – so there again, the odds were against LRH to have gotten so many of them right. Btw, Elizabeth knows with great personal reality from her auditing that there definitely are implants and implanters on the track – many, many of them.
Marildi: If it actually was implants, there would be no real cleverness involved.
Chris: This is not true.
Marildi: Btw, Elizabeth knows with great personal reality from her auditing that there definitely are implants and implanters on the track – many, many of them.
Chris: Yes she does, and she also says that Ron was the greatest whole track implanter of them all and NOT the inventor of this technology but the burglar of it from herself — the only one ever to confront and as-is the entire whole track.
And I remain skeptical of those claims.
Great personal realities seem to be both great and personal in my own tautological universe. haha
But truly, if we are to be really adventurers then we’ve got to lighten up about our own personal realities and certainties — Open our arms big and wide in order to embrace all that is. For me, my personal reality is analogous to being the eyes and ears and sense organs and experience for the backdrop of God, and please believe that I use the word God very loosely and sparingly.
Chris: “Yes she does, and she also says that Ron was the greatest whole track implanter of them all and NOT the inventor of this technology but the burglar of it from herself — the only one ever to confront and as-is the entire whole track.”
Just to set the record straight, Elizabeth did NOT say LRH was the burglar of this technology. In fact, she has given him credit for the tech over and over, dozens of times. And she did NOT say he was the burglar of it from “herself” – she specifically stated numerous times as well, that the Buddha had only lead people astray.
Discuss it with her. She will tell you. Ron was a thief who stole the tech of implanting and was a brilliant implanter. Also, she was Siddhartha Gautama – the Buddha. I do not doubt this is or has been her reality. Realities are like ass****s. We all have one. (Not a dig at you or Elizabeth nor meant negatively – just affirmatively.)
I also remember things from past lives, things that seem as natural to remember as the backpacking trip I took last week. Memory is a curious thing. Your Ron said memory is, “. . . spotty as a leopard, nobody’s memory is that good and nobody’s memory is that bad. . . ” I find that to be real to me. And the major mistake that I have been resolving about my own case is an identification mistake about “who I really am” which has been sorting out nicely for myself. However, my words when said to you simply become an ideology — not to me, but to you. Likewise, your words from you to me — ideology. This is why I harp on doing this adventuring for ourselves as does our Elizabeth.
The Universe undulates and oscillates and comes together and goes apart. Let’s roll our heads and loosen our shoulders and not get entirely hung up on making up permanences like spirits or whatever. We are obviously a part of it all, chill.
“Discuss it with her. She will tell you. Ron was a thief who stole the tech of implanting and was a brilliant implanter. Also, she was Siddhartha Gautama – the Buddha. I do not doubt this is or has been her reality. Realities are like ass****s. We all have one. (Not a dig at you or Elizabeth nor meant negatively – just affirmatively.)”
You just completely changed what you had said – which you knew wasn’t true.
What is not true? The part where I claim that you are a shameless promoter of the religion of Scientology and of L. Ron Hubbard and do not practice Scientology but only blog about it, or the part where Elizabeth claims to have erased her entire reactive mind through 120,000 hours of solo auditing and that Ron was a whole track thief of the implanting materials, therefore knows how to unravel them? All of it? Some of it? Something else? I have more on this so waiting your reply. Please include commentary about my tone level when you do. This is very helpful.
First run them and then experiment with the order before exalting others to do the same.
Chris
Please find and copy here where she said what you claim she said ( in the last paragraph).
Chris
You can save the time. What any person is aware of is the person’s reality. Whatever she said (that above or not that, or partly that) is her reality and not yours
or mine. Also, reality is everchanging. Can be an invitation for Elizabeth to come here and talk about her present reality. Elizabeth?
I didn’t understand your point.
Odd. It seems to me to be essentially the same as your point.
Not odd Val, I never claimed to understand my own point! haha
TO CHIS.. I got a email telling me that you are doing some saying which are not quiet right.
Chris: Yes she does, and she also says that Ron was the greatest whole track implanter of them all and NOT the inventor of this technology but the burglar of it from herself — the only one ever to confront and as-is the entire whole track.”
Elizabeth Hamre
THE TECH BELONGS TO LRH. I never ever claimed such a work.
YES and I have been Gautama and I also said I was not proud of that in the apposite: I committed HUGE OVERT being that person a because lacking than knowledge I believe that time that Meditation lead out of the MEST Universe but NO, Meditation gets one stuck in NOTHINGNESS and nothingness is not the Universe where one is free to be and free to have, free to crate and experience.Medetation lead one into a deadend, yes one can key out of stimulation by Meditation but NOTHINGNESS IT SELF IS A HUGE MASSS OF ENERGY AND IT IS A PRISON when one get into it.
Yes LRH WAS a implanter a big one in other place and other time so were you and so were I and every body and every bodies mother who thought you the basic what you will need to become a human, we all had the finger in the pie because it was fun, it was in thing to do and it was the fashion and not one of us knew than what it will bring in the future and not one of us knew that we are captured by those implants or their effects will rob us from freedom and we be in that prison walled in for good. LRH’s TECH is the only tech. that will erase those implants.
If there is another one I have not found one.. but I do not claim I have experienced everything outside of my own creation. But here is the catch: no one has experienced anything outside of their own creation… that can not be done because once experienced that that experience belongs to you.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Thank You.
Chris… live me out of your comments…you are slandering not only me but all auditors, with that those who receive auditing, those who believe in the Thech and every body else who ever had wins, whos life was changed for the better because the TECh and its use.
You have not duplicated what I told you therefore you giving here what that bank of yours twisted into some confusing evil, bad, banky stuff.
That is not OK at all because by putting down solo auditing and you do cause confusion for others who consider that they too will become solo auditors.
Once and for all : since you had very little auditing your self and never solo audited that is the only reason you don’t have reality on the Tech. and on auditors.
If you really would done solo audited as you said-lied about it here in this blog than you would not be attacking -slandering me, the Tech- the auditors because solo auditing do give cognitions… wins and changes the persons negative outlook to positive.
Tell:what do you gain by slander? Make you feel important, better, above all , that you have inside information which is valuable and every one should know about it?
Elisabeth, if you instead of attacking Chris would clarify what you did in fact say about LRH and thieving and all that , then this could perhaps resemble a rational discussion.
LRH , the thief man of mental tech. This could be the basis to allow the squirrelling of the tech as a positive way to develop furthermore the scientology tech, OT levels perhaps ?
Hi Rafael SN, If I understand what you’re saying, then LRH has squirrelled the mental implanting tech into a helpful and workable tech?
Yup 🙂
Chris , how it seems to me is more like looking to the capability of more persons than LRH to develop further workable mental or spiritual technology, so, technical degrades policy is false not only KSW.
Thanks Rafael. I have come to think that the striving for ultimate individualism is an incorrect vector and an ultimate trap, the ultimate condensation as a spiritual goal. This is of course my opinion, however, man fights with man in an attempt to assert his dominance. Religions with which I am familiar promote man laying down his life for unworthy goals such as war for imperialism or to accumulate influence or filthy money. They do this by convincing him that there is a greater reward awaiting him on the other side of living. Scientology promised us we would be gods at the end of the Bridge to Total Freedom. Mormons seek spiritual superiority enough to go off and commandeer their own planets. Christianity and Islam seek salvations and great rewards after a martyr’s death. Western religion, the religion with which I am familiar has promised “pie in the sky when we die” however none of the priesthood promoting this ideology is seeking to “die for the pie.” This seems to me the biggest lie and inconsistency of religion in general including Scientology.
Chris, religion is not that important in my view. Honesty and faith on your inner constructive nature is. And so I say, the important part of the existence is not God or religion but persons, these are real and exist right now.
Yup. Seems kind of obvious. It seems to me that only ideologies can turn a person’s attention from this.
1. Geir you never responded to this comment of mine, in which I asked you not just dismiss it without honestly looking at what I’m saying.
2. Somewhere else you wrote: “I did have issues with dichotomies – but they weren’t installed there by Xenu’s henchmen or evil psychs. It was good to get them shaken.”
So how were they installed, then?
Through lives’ tar and wear. Life presents dichotomies for us to handle. Sometimes we fail.
2. I remember reading those lists of dichotomies and, for the vast majority, they don’t seem at all to be goals that would be likely for most people – they are rather far-fetched, aren’t they?
1. Plus, you still haven’t responded to my previous post. I was really hoping for some straight discussion with you, but I feel like this is more of a cat and mouse game going on. Correct me if I’m wrong, or if you simply aren’t interested in discussing these things.
I am pretty disinterested giving your stuck positions.
That’s an assumption on your part, Geir, maybe based on old conclusions.
I haven’t stated a settled (or stuck) position – I’ve just been throwing out a variety of ideas and asking you to comment on them. If you would rather not, that’s fine.
Well if someone can lay out the logics as well as he did in early 50,s then follow up with axioms all 190 odd also q,s , factors and also Scientology axioms all of which align with him looking for this for 15 years then I would have to go with the first suggestion I think .. What do you make of the axioms if that ain’t looking at the bank and how to unmock it ?? Or have I just wasted 2000 hours plus understanding them : )
Hi Douglas. Now that you’ve reminded me of all those things that LRH so ingeniously worked out, it makes me lean in the direction of thinking that at least to a large degree he probably worked out the list of dichotomies based on things like flows or whatever – but I would imagine that to start with, he got a certain amount of data from the incidents pc’s came up with in session, and then worked the rest out from there.
You have not wasted your time. But you have spent 2000 hours understanding an ideology and now you have a very good understanding of it. The error is in thinking that ideology covers a larger world view than its own sphere. Outside that sphere, as we have explored and shown, that ideology loses consistency.
Interesting point Chris ..
Did I waste 2000 hours or not .. Is this an ideology really or is it because there is no real results at present that you CAN say this and yes then it’s a valid point … HOWEVER maybe Read my next post to Marlida then tell me I wasted my time or not !!! ?? Doug
Every inventor of every ideology was as clever as Ron was. Why do you think this is not the case?
Chris
I can view any ideology as a ‘bubble’, I wonder if you too. What is your experiential base of living like outside the bubble? I mean very, very concretely. The deepest and vividest way you can describe ‘reality-life’.
Marianne, This YouTube clip explains it better than I can. I see processes going on in front of my eyes and I mentally abstract these into familiar things that we can agree on, or sometimes not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vAnuBtyEYE I hope this communicates my version of mindfulness. We are all writers of “code,” and assimilators of “code.” You asked for concrete but I do not see so firmly nor certainly.
Doug, All ideologies are models which are self defined and consistent within themselves. This is the beauty of ideology. It does your thinking for you.
The implants have to be the same identical bank to bank in order to give is reality ( agreement ) all the same all the same all the same !!
But let’s take religion and god and angels and devils just those !!! They are all there but it’s what we do with them in our current civilisation that gives us most of our wars and Passion on this subject however the GPMs are still the same don’t you see this maybe ?? Don’t ponder it too hard you might go religious on us : )
D.L. The Implants having such a huge variety and each person has some the same and some different that is reason people DO NOT AGREE when looking at SEEING THE SAME thing.
We agree that the grass is green but what green you see is your reality and what I see is mine and we do not know what that green looks to that person.
But the problem is not just having implants galore in ones universe but having agreements with almost everything and we agree for a simple reason because it was implanted into us we must if we want to be normal and want to be accepted into the group. Example: all humans agree that they cant levitate, cant walk through wall, that they were born and they will die.. they agree that cant see in the dark, that ice is cold and fire is hot… By agreement one belongs to the same group.
That OT 2 works may not have any bearing on Hubbard’s underlying theories. At all. Just like the Flat Earth Society has everything mapped out just beautifully. That observations seem to match their theories does in fact not validate those theories.
I happen to believe there is no R6 bank. I have seen no evidence that it exists.
Flat Earth existed in other place. The Earth like Planet existed it was much bigger that this ball but large part was blown away and a fast current has taken the rest of the Planet and slowly this current which had lot of other hard matter in it rubbed corroded that Planet flat. It is still out there floating in a gentle pool.
Since there is nothing new On Planet Earth those people in the society recalled the past and still lived in that reality.
It is nothing worst than eating dead meat believing that one needs it in order to survive.
PS. My recall taken me to that Flat Planet when session I was confronting my huge Overt against those remaining occupants who did not perish while the planets was reshaping it self. Those occupants were true Spiritual Entities who do not had “BEING-ness” added yet.
While I was on ADVENCED BEING who was rotten to the core 🙂 hehehe I was there to take away that ‘shiny-glowing thing” which each of these persons had in their semi transparent bodies in the center the same location where the meat body has the heart..
I believed that shiny thing had a great value because these Entities were untouchable did not die, nothing could happen to them so I to wanted that and I figured If I get hold of those light I was saved from death.
But the outcome was very different… I did not had to take it by force, I found it out I to was the light and never died.
PS; on different matter.
When one has recall whole life, being that individual, when one recalls the birth, growing up, living that unwanted forced life. when one recalls illnesses, injuries, being impotent sexually: herbal potions were used in order be able to function as a male.
When one had to learn what is sleep yet could not [ I still do very little of that and I use Melatonin large doze in order to have some] and the agony and doubts, confusions about being human [ this was my first human meat body] knowing something was not right since I did not have memory of any kind, than when one confronts the huge losses what that life given… not just one incident but all the way through death and after that being stock in that nothingness for centuries and when finally one becomes aware and learns: finding out one did not do any good but committed crime by leading many down on the wrong path because out of sheer ignorance.. that life held no glory I did not put it there, the glory was put there by others and was not deserved, because they do not understand that glory they give is their very own prison.
Just think since than how much crime has been committed defending that name!
Perhaps this puts the light on why I have put aside the ”life” and spent that life time 40 years solo auditing, what has given me the Will -power to never give in or give up to any incident .
I don’t own explanation but I do not wish to cause doubt if after reading the above you still don’t believe that that is your desired to have that belief. Thank you for your attantion. Elizabeth Hamre.
I made a followup post about the OTIII volcanoes vs. continental drift before I went to bed, but it apparently didn’t get posted. Maybe I shut down my pc too quickly. Whatever. But here it is, more or less.
Geologists believe Pangaea was actually formed about 300,000,000 years ago, and started breaking up about 200,000,000 years ago. How was it “formed”? It is theorized that Pangaea was actually not the first, ‘supercontinent’ to exist on Earth, but the 4th. It appears the land mass of earth has repeatedly fragmented,drifted, and then clumped together again, only to fragment once more, in a kind of geological brownian motion-like effect, driven by “tectonic” effects not yet well understood.
So, 75,000,000 years ago, the land mass that would become the continents of Antarctica and Australia was still one, and lay in the temperate zone south of the equator. It would later break apart, with the western half drifting south towards the South Pole, as the eastern half drifted East towards its present position.
I don’t believe there is any concrete evidence that can prove or disprove the OTIII story on the basis of geological evidence or theory. The planet, which seems so stable and unchanging to us, is actually in a constant flux, even its apparently most solid elements like continents and mountains, oceans, etc. They only appear stable to us because they dance in slower time, and their lifespan is to ours, as ours is to the lifespan of a fly or a microbe.
The world was very different 75,000,000 years ago; for example, the air was a lot richer with oxygen and the vegetation was likely far more lush.
The “India (tectonic) plate” did not even begin to collide with the Eurasian continent until about 55,000,000 years ago, about 20,000,000 to 25,000,000 years after the supposed date of OTIII.
Here is some more detailed information about this. Note the original supercontinent is called “Gondwana” by some geologists, as in this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Plate
Here is more:
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/071017/full/news.2007.172.html
Note that some geologists postulate 2 supercontinents which came about when Pangaea initially broke into 2 pieces, a Northern one and a Southern one, with “Gondwanaland” being the southern one. and “Laurasia” the northern:
http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/teachers/t_tectonics/p_pangaea2.html
Here is a detailed analysis of OTIII specifics. It does make a convincing case that OTIII specifics as described by LRH does not jibe with geology/history:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/ot/peter_forde.html#2.3.1
Well you got me there Val !!
So you are saying factors introduced into a problem or solution which do not derive from natural law but only authoritarian command aberrate that problem or solution !
Or maybe you mean Those fields which most depend upon Authoritative opinion for there data least contain known natural laws !!
Or let’s go A datum is as valuable as it has been evaluated !!!
Ok take your pick !
I’m going with these two !
The value of a datum or a field of data is modified by the viewpoint of the observer ! Which leads me back to this one …..
Any knowledge which can be sensed measured or experienced by any entity is CAPABLE of influencing that entity ,
Corollary that knowledge which cannot be sensed measured or experienced by any entity or type of entity CANNOT influence that entity or type of entity !!!
So this my learned Frend is my take on this … A Control center effort is aligned toward a goal through definite space as a recognized incident in time !! Axiom 141 ..
So in summary from my experience Val i had an intern for an OT proceedure and i went into a freewheel exactly text book no eat no sleep was looking pretty grim then i got the sit handled and wow I knew this think kicked harder than a mule .. That was 30 years ago so I was strong boy then !
Don’t get me wrong I’m pissed off more than ANYONE on this forum that the tech is squirreled bad however I do understand the TRUE basics coz I forced them in to discover what we all can’t bring ourselves to confront and it’s so ugly deceitful and savage that you don’t want to find out this until you is squeaky clean : ) I had 5 intensives of class IX auditing on the back of FPRD training to locate this thing and I like some was looking for this more than the average Joe ! Actually I put the class IX to sleep ( believe it or not ) in the session i found it so i got a free session in lou of this ..I mean truly uncomfortable and unconfrontable TRUTH this gives you the ability to spot out tech and if anyone doesn’t think I have this ability than you ain’t in the frame of mind to swallowing anything .
This incident did happen and it reads like a demon on me now ; )
NB I like the research and thanks for that effort Val .. Doug
I don’t understand your post. What do you want me to understand from it?
I’m with Chris. I have not done any advanced levels at all, and generally try to post in plain English, not techspeak.
So I hope you get all that sorted out to your own satisfaction.
Meanwhile here in our ordinary reality, I hear that LRH said this or that, and no geological or historical evidence backs what he said up. Contradicts the possibility, in fact. Now, I am not stupid enough to think LRH was not looking at SOMETHING, when he recounted this incident. But the question is, WHAT was he looking at? There are not a lot of possibilities are there?
For example, on an LSD trip way back in the 1960s, I found myself right in the middle of and experiencing the Fac One incident. Of course I had no idea what it was, as I had never heard of Fac One. A few years later, when I read some descriptions of that incident, it was very obvious what it was.
I have also been paying attention to my infrequent dreams, in which I am in San Francisco. But this San Francisco is ‘different’ from the way it is today. Yet to me it is unmistakably some kind of ‘avatar’ of the San Francisco I have known in this life.
There is a lot of existence that is unaccounted for. But, does it all really need to be accounted for? Only if you wish for it to be.
Wow, thanks for telling about the Fac One incident. It must have been quite an experience. From what I’ve read about BT’s it could even have been a BT’s incident – not to evaluate for you, just saying. Either way, it tends to indicate that LRH wasn’t making it all up. As another bit of anecdotal evidence, someone on Marty’s blog recently commented about two people he knew of who came up with the R6 implants without ever having heard about them before.
Btw, Val, reading all your posts on this thread (and others) about a whole variety of subjects, from geology to theology, made me want to ask if you’ve ever considered writing a book! You have such a wide array of knowledge from all you’ve read and studied that I’m not sure what the book would be about, though. What would you say to that?
Thanks marildi!
Of my LSD trips, that was possibly the worst. I felt like I was being jack-hammered and wondered if my body would stand it, or it would shake apart into pieces. LRH called that device the “coffee grinder”. I felt like I was the coffee!
Yes, I like to write and have though of it before. But writing a book can be a lot of work! And I am a lazy person. Most of my writing on these blogs is responsive, interactive. If I tried to write a book, I might start by collecting all my blog posts here and from Marty’s. Unfortunately the forum Geir started is apparently no longer in existence; but much of those posts of mine were junk. Some were pretty good though.
I might title such a book “A Disjointed and Episodic History of Nothing in Particular”. Or something like that. 🙂
All that said, possibly the only book I might be motivated to write would be pretty obscene. An erotic or pornographic novel, or one liberally “implanted” with such material. It would probably be one you would want delivered in a plain brown wrapper! I am after all, at almost 69 years old, now a “dirty old man”!
You have written many many good posts Valkov! I enjoy reading your work.
You are a FUNNY old man! You had me really laughing.
Wow, I reviewed the data about Fac 1 in HOM and now that you’ve described it I get why LRH called it the “coffee grinder.” (I almost hate to talk about it for fear of restimulating you – it even gives me a somatic!) I wonder how many LSD bad trips are actually restimulated implants.
Hey, I think it’s a great idea to collect up all your posts and organize them in an interesting way and publish a book. (However, I do kind of like the idea of an erotic novel… :))
Btw, I opt for the erotic novel. :d
Erotic novel, marildil? Well, it’s my turn to laugh and say: “You are funny, granny!”. Oldie, but goldie…:)
Oh yeah, you were opting for the erotic novel too – admit it! 😀
I’m both too young and too old for erotic novels 🙂
I’m neither too young nor too old. 😛
p.s. Val, I forgot to say how interesting it was that I had made a comment last night about how much knowledge you have acquired and how well you express it – and then this morning Maria said the same exact thing over on Marty’s blog!
marildi, I think Chris could write a good book. I know you must have read his comment to you earlier on this thread, in which he said, among other things, “The Universe undulates and oscillates and comes together and goes apart.”
When I read that, I thought “You be trippin’, brotha Chris!”
He could title his book “The Undulating Universe”. Lots of folks would buy that! Chapter One, should he choose a linear format, would begin with: “The electrical cables snaked and twisted as though they were trying to escape my grasp…..” 🙂
Glen Campbell’s “I am a lineman for the county” was playing in the background…..
I got turned away by the first paragraph where he tried to cover up that he had said some things he knew weren’t true about Elizabeth. It’s all there in black and white in the thread. I used to enjoy Chris’ posts too, but now it seems that he does his darnedest to make posting here unpleasant for me by making some critical remark on just about every comment I post. Sorry to be so negative when you are being so positive.
p.s. Besides positive, it was funny and creative. 😉
Val: He could title his book “The Undulating Universe”.
Chris: LOL! and I would put hoochie girls on the cover!
That works for me. 🙂
Good post Valkov. Oddly, Hubbard was unaware of these geographical changes, of sea floor spreading and seemingly of any briefing on astro physics at all.
Ok sorry for the confusion
However in my defense here,these are just some of the Logics of Scientology .. I’m sorry but this is the basis of the whole subject of the mind and this should be anyone’s ABC of research into discovering anything really worth while understanding .. That,s Scientology 0-8 they are little stepping stones towards truth and they are the basis of the data series or in layman terms Bullshit Breakers . It is true that with OT viewpoint they become easier to understand but then again I don’t know anyone else that understands them.( Cog so you are right I’m out on a limb here !! )
Anyhow lets take it gentle as we go .. Take the fac one incident on your tripping stupidity .. !!! Take this fac one you got into ok let’s just say That is similar to R6 ok now what is on top of that ?? locks and secondaries and Engrams .. Ok ok so if you were at a point were you could confront this incident then its basically going to blow the stuff on top of it .. Engrams secondaries and locks lots and lots and lots of them : ) !! So all I’m saying is that the stuff I found re Responsibility on my track ( the part I played ) has given me an ability to spot outpoints especially if they ( the outpoints ) don’t align with handling the bank ., even even to the point that I got Logic #4 returned to original after they screwed with it in 2001 !! They tried to change it so that it would alighn with the Nots material Not bad effort up against a know best buch of deceivers !! If you want to stop thinking about wishy washy stuff and only think in logic especially when it really counts then study the Logics and then see if you can get into the Axioms .. The planets sort of aligned for me to get them ( joke ) and they may align for you too !! Doug
Douglas, is this the correct Logic 4, and please tell me how it was changed:
LOGIC 4. A DATUM IS A FACSIMILE OF STATES OF BEING, STATES OF NOT BEING, ACTIONS OR INACTIONS, CONCLUSIONS, OR SUPPOSITIONS IN THE PHYSICAL OR ANY OTHER UNIVERSE.
Yes correct Marildi
You see they changed it to
“A datum is a symbol of matter , energy ,space or time or any combination thereof , in any universe , or the matter , energy , space or time itself , or any combination thereof , in any universe . ”
WTF you may say .. But they justified it by drawing reference to some space opera stuff LRH was talking about on a PDC lecture in reference to a much higher state when we were not loaded up with facsimilies like we think with today . THEN They also inserted a logics definition in the logics first page which stated this
Logics: a method of thinking . They apply to any universe or any thinking process. They are the forms of thought behavior which can , but do not necessarily have to , be used in creating universes !! Hi hi hi WTFF ..
I just threw it back at them with both barrels blazing and they had to repent !! :?) actually the CO CLO who pushed it up lines got her arse kicked coz she never really recovered from this KSW situation ..she saw what is happening to the tech as she read my other outpoints issues that make this cycle look like a kid stealing 50 cents from his parents dresser table !! Im not saying this is minor im saying that the others are bigger than the Titanic Thanks for asking. Doug
Doug, thank you so much. Fascinating data. What can you tell us about the stuff that’s bigger than the Titanic??? 🙂
OK Doug I kinda get you here. I haven’t rally looked at the Logics; I have looked at the Axioms somewhat.
However my point had to do with finding something in the mind that I had no previous knowledge of. My Fac One story seemed analogous to LRH’s discovery of the content of Incident II, which is addressed on OTIII, right?
I brought the issue up because there are some who feel this incident is imaginary and those who perceive it do so because it is “fed” to them by th eOTIII materials from LRH.
My point is, assuming LRH had no previous knowledge of the “wall of fire”, and the content was not fed to him as it would be fed to subsequent pre-OTs, then he was actually looking at and perceiving something, not imagining it. Since what he describes is apparently geologically impossible in Earth terms, what the heck was he recalling, if it was a recall? Did it happen on some other planet, and he was confused about the actual location? Was th eEarths geology that different back then? What is the explanation of the inconsistency between LRH’s recalls of it, and the geological record, to the extent it is known to us now?
I have yet to read/hear a consistent explanation of all the available data. Thus I believe we do not have all the available data. Given the extent of continental drift, how was LRH locating the volcanoes he was talking about? Was it by latitude and longitude, or how? For example, there may well have been a land mass with volcanoes where Hawaii is today, although the Hawaiian islands as we know them did not yet exist. Thus if he was locating them by spotting the latitude and longitude, it may be accurate spotting. But I don’t know how he was doing it, and our current knowledge of geology does not seem to confirm his reports.
On the other hand, I knew several people in the 1970s before and after they did OTIII, and it made quite a difference in some of them. “Freedom from overwhelm” seemed to describe it pretty well.
The volcanoes on Ot3 are named (current names) and this not other volcanoes that happened to be there 75 million years ago.
So the big question is, what the heck was LRH looking at in his mind, that he was possibly misidentifying with current locations?
That is a rhetorical question. I don’t think we can really establish anything but speculations about it. And the ones I’ve seen so far don’t account for all the facts.
I will qualify this – what was he looking at, in whatever space he was looking in? I realize that “mind” was likely to be a misleading word, or in any case, not the right word.
Chris””’Discuss it with her. She will tell you. Ron was a thief who stole the tech of implanting and was a brilliant implanter. Also, she was Siddhartha Gautama – the Buddha. I do not doubt this is or has been her reality. Realities are like ass****s. We all have one. (Not a dig at you or Elizabeth nor meant negatively – just affirmatively ]
Elizabeth : You are wrong about the content of the above comment you have made, reads like a 1.1 to me, black PR..
you are having problems with duplication. . therefore you cant recall what you have heard in the first place,
I see. You’ve left out 3rd party. My tone level notwithstanding, you did not say that you were the original Buddha? Did not say that Ron did not invent the processes of Scientology and did not say that Ron had stolen what he knows of the Scientology materials on the whole track? Did not say that Ron was a clever thief and implanter on the whole track? Did not say that you are the first and the only person in the history of the mind to have erased your entire reactive bank through 120,000 hours of solo auditing? I apologize in advance and I stand corrected.