Protesting the Church of Scientology is a luxury phenomenon

When protesting the Church of Scientology has become more important to a large number of people than helping the world overcome poverty, helping the climate get back on it’s feet and solving the many miseries plaguing a large portion of the population on this planet, I believe we have gotten to a point of decadence.

Just saw a TV program about an 81 year old Norwegian lady dedicating her life to helping poor people in Manilla. Got me thinking.

71 thoughts on “Protesting the Church of Scientology is a luxury phenomenon

  1. My first thought is that the number of people obsessed with Scientology is pretty small. My second thought is that we are entering into a new age of LOOKING.

    .

  2. I must admit I don’t have the luxury of time to protest Co$ as I would like to, my family and job take most of it. However there are countless of activities that may be much more important than what I am doing. When I take my kids to see a movie 30 euros are spent just for entertainment when there are starving kids around the world that could eath for a month with that sum. Why else some of us support Amnesty International, others Greenpace, other care too much about the MiddleEast/Palestinian sufferings and join the fight one side or the other and others again simply don’t care, too busy to play in their own universe.
    Any attempt to impose importances to the needs of the world and individuals is an attempt to impose ethics, and that’s doomed to fail as ethics is personal. All we can do is provide correct informations, make things know, so that people can take up any social activity if they feel the need to, without being mislead into giving support to unfair groups.

    Why I criticize Co$ more than I criticize more dramatic forms of oppression around the world, like China oppression of Falung Gong, ethical cleanups in SA, depletion of planet resources by unethical corporations? Because Co$ is hurting me with disconnection right in this moment. Because I want to undo some evil I crated by supporting Co$ for decades. But better answer I’ve found in Robert Vaughn Young words:
    «Each of us does what we can do. Our obligation is to do it as well as we can, with as much grace, dignity, integrity and honor our egos can tolerate.»

    1. It’s not purely the prioritizing I am targeting here. It’s the obsessing that got me thinking. It’s a post baout my own priorities, really.

  3. There is a scale of importance for issues, and the attention should go to the most important one.
    I think that one needs also to compute with what he can do now regarding each issue and where will his efforts make a change.
    Having LRH data free and used correctly is something that is not that important maybe as the other issues, but something can be done now to effectively change it now.

  4. True, it’s not the most important issue in the world – except maybe to a few of those most affected by it.
    It was funny to talk to “handlers” asking why we’d protest the CoS when there were all these other issues like famine and war. First, it was funny to point out that by asking that they had accepted a premise of the CoS being a bad thing. Secondly, just because there are worse things doesn’t mean we should ignore all minor issues completely – we don’t stop mending broken fingers just because we haven’t eradicated cancer and AIDS yet.
    It’s a matter of keeping things in perspective.
    I think one of the problems the CoS has, is that it tends to not only do bad things, but do bad things in a hilariously over-the-top dramatic way, bringing more attention to itself than it really deserves.

  5. Obsessiveness aside, there is the issue that the c of s represents a real evil in the world, albeit on a very, very small scale. I think of it as a cancer. If found and excised at an early stage while it’s presence in the body is small and localized, eradication is likely achieved. Allowed to become larger and possibly to spread, it’s harder to contain, success is less assured, and the amount of resources required to treat it (including time) increases significantly. Had Hitler been stopped early in his career how much pain and death could have been avoided?

    If this is a personal epiphany of yours, though, I hope you follow your impulse to broaden the scope of your help to mankind. You’ve proved yourself a pretty formidable champion and the rest of the world will certainly benefit from your “applied attention.”

    lunamoth

  6. Anonymous got interested in the Church when they tried to censor the INTERNET.We have “Democracy Now” on the local TV her in Göteborg (Sweden).There i got the news today that the revolution in Tunisia is the first Wicky-Leaks Revolution,that it started because the people got black and white on there presidents transgressions.Then a Swish banker has leaked more documents that will have great impact on world affairs.Iceland and Wicki-leaks has been in negotiations to start an “information haven” on Iceland!! The world looks like it does because greedy men control us with lies..

    1. Helping the general freedom of information (such as wikileaks) is more along my purpose line than protesting any church.

  7. Thank you Geir. I figured that out a ways back and why I started to promote the Venus Project. I figured out the church is not the source of the problem.

    The system is. It helped create the church and all the churches that go bad as well as the corporation and the Industrial war complex. Profit at all costs. HIDE PR at all cost due to the profit money system.

    It matters little about ethics of the matter. This system rewards and something one has to bend the rules. Some are flat plain broken when they don’t have to be. It allows people like to DM and other suppressives to get to the top of the heap. Very hard to remove them once they get there. If DM did not have all the money to toss around to keep him there it would be simple for the Indies to walk in and say get the hell out.

    Well maybe he would figure out a way to hang on but it would not be as difficult for the people would be on equal ground and each can live up to what they really can do without the suppresive system on their backs holding them down. I do think some dude way back when say if he stole all the apples he could control the apples in the area and all had to go to him for apple. Then the not so bright people early people bought into it and that turned into money. Probably one of the earlier SP’s too and I bet I am not far from wrong.

    Now if we knew how that really got going on this planet we would have a lot of answers. As there will always be people that have no apples because the one’s that do hold them all. A few others might be allowed to have some but end the end not all.

    Now we have a chance to correct this and the pain will be as much as people see the problems with the current system. There will always be starving, dying people in it as now the apples are oil, power, food and housing.

    I don’t want to hear that the starving people caused their own condition. BULLS*TT.

    One can’t be OT starving to death one has a major PTS and PT problem and one can’t think happy thoughts doing so to create the world one wants. We all go free or we don’t go free. I see that now in more ways than one. Is it OT For any OT to see the pain and hunger in the world and do nothing about it. I don’t think so and I don’t think the number of hours of auditing is going to fix it either. It may help those who help the new system being proposed to be in existence so all can get auditing if they so freely desire it.

    Yet when I try to explain it to some Indies I am speaking Greek here. I am proud that some on Facebook gets it. Robin is one of them and also Jessie Prince.

    You can’t fix the church in this current system nor can you fix the governments. A reform might happen for a short time then another DM type will come and history repeats. History keeps on repeating. Such as Hitler. The United States is going this way due to it’s own overts against mankind. That is where I am. I can see what it is doing and I am a citizen of humanity as a whole as I have friends all around the planet. I even once talked to someone in Mainland China on my Yahoo once. I was kind of surprised I was able to.

    If we don’t survive on the 4th dynamic we will not survive very well on the other dynamics. They all have importance. But I see the fourth being destroyed.

    Now the Zeitgeist Movement is a fourth dynamic activity that supports an RBE economy. Which is resource based economy. Change the money system to sharing resources planet wide and have decisions arrived in a scientific manner using cybernetics. Machines don’t care if this person wants all the apples and tries to get them. He would not get them. The resources planet wide would be shared planet wide. No money, No starving people, All have housing and power. Then look at how many you can audit if you wish a even better world. No bad PR unless you earn it.

    I been telling the Indies about this for close to two years. I got insulted by saying it is my case is why I am for it. Like I can’t think with my brain. Yeah I know it get scrambled due to the gluten intolerance but I can still think. I been mocked on that too by a few that I thought would not do so. Yeah it is my case that is why I am thinking logically and broke the church programming that only one answer ever existed on this planet.

    I know LRH did get a lot of good things but I have read a lot of other bright good things too like Jacque Fresco and he proves what he says by my observation for the Indies behave in the same manner as he describes and for the reason he describes it.

    I been sitting back here watching and watching and watching. I learned about people doing so. Anyone can turn on you that you though was nice. I was mocked because I can’t think clearly at times due to the gluten intolerance and it was an Indie that did it and he is trained auditor. That told me something as well. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE no matter who and what they are. They do as people will do. Some will never do that for that is who they are and some will. No matter the case level.

    Now we got some solutions that can be put into place and a few church brainwashing will not even let them look at the solution and then tell me when I do that my case level is why and then start discussing my case on a yahoo list. SHAME ON YOU.

    We can make the transition less painful than it otherwise might be but people have to fight the church and this and that which I conisder an often a waste of time as the money people will just come in and buy off what ever they want to. A few might not be bought off but people need money to survive. So they will do what they have to keep their jobs.

    I will repeat that again.

    PEOPLE NEED MONEY TO SURVIVE AS IT IS THE LOWEST DYNAMIC AND THEY WILL DO ANYTHING THEY PERCEIVE TO SURVIVE BETTER. TO KEEP THEIR JOBS AND TO PUT OUT FALSE PR.

    This system forces it to be. Some do use ethics if they CAN AFFORD TO DO SO. A few who can’t might as well but most will take the route of personal and family survival first.

    The church says ethics. There can’t be ethics when the system is crashing. Look at the damn church. It had all the ethics/auditing tech and the supposed wonderful (NOT) policies and look where it is.

    I expect no one in the church will be allowed to support the Venus Project as well. So you will not run into OSA there if you are afraid of the boogey man. That is what they are mostly now anyhow. The church will kill itself as it is doing and we don’t need to sit fixing the church or protesting it. As Geir said there are better problems to work on.

    The people in the church still have free choice they choose to be that way. Sometimes if they don’t want to support it it is a hard choice to do what one needs to do but sometimes you do it and then the family may follow in time.

    Again this system supports this too as people work with people in the church. This system keeps the church afloat in so many ways. It would collapse in the RBE society of it’s own weight and overt acts.

    To learn of the Venus Project go to http://WWW.theVenusProject.com and http://WWW.TheZeitgeistMovement.com and the new movie out which set world records recently in opening planet wide to sell out in theaters. Gaining media and actors support planet wide. The attacks are about to start as a result and have.

    The movie is Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. on the 25th it can be downloaded on torrent and or at this site. http://WWW.ZeitgeistMovingForward.com.

    We have a chance to build a better world which will allow auditing. Free choice to be and to invent the warp drive and to be who we are. NOTHING IS PERFECT and this will not be either as there are always problems where people are around and the planet still has issues as earthquakes and floods. People will still argue over stupid stuff.

    I as I said was picked at for using simple logic. It is not case as I use logic not programmed thinking someone else place in me. I can reject data now if it is not correct by how I see it.

    Kind of hard to do that when one is programmed by society itself and the church. Geir is breaking that programming. He can now think with logic.

    It is why I loved the Vulcans on Trek and why I use logic as I choose in what to support. Also Trek is based a lot on the Venus Project. That is little known.

    Anyhow it is ok to help someone out of it as they want to come out but at this late date that is rather hard do to get anyone to leave the cult.

  8. Geir, I do not know, to be honest… the Church took more decades of my life… Lots of money… caused concrete misery to people I know by ruining their life and health. I know people becoming violent and I know at least about one death caused by a person who soon went even higher on the Bridge.
    Scientology IS dangerous.
    People must be warned against the hidden evil within the church and scientology.
    Some years ago I did not understood why it is called maffia and by similar names.
    Now I understand. I wish others understand it as well and be free of it’s strong personality distorting, ego-booster characteristics which leads no way to any good.

      1. Sorry, I do not understand.
        It seems, you are beginning to protect the Church.

        “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” – Albert Einstein

  9. Good post. I had to learn the hard way a few times what seems obvious to a few: It’s often more effective to handle an obstacle by going around it and moving forward along your path than in beating your head against a brick wall.

  10. Geir, It seems to me that the old lady have put you in a logical dilemma!
    How can you possibly justify to do the lesser good by oppose, or combat the CoS at any particular time and place, when it is possible to do the greater good in example do something for the poor in the world? Or to do something for your children, or your wife when so many children starve in the world? I myself doesn’t have any such dilemma because I am an Egoist who in principle prefer to buy the latest toys for my children to play with, than to feed starving children in Africa!

    Have you heard about the Russian Born Author Ayn Rand, and her Philosophy of Objectivism?
    You have another topic on you blog; “on the Value of life” which can be related to this; “A being is only as valuable as he can serve others.” As you seems somewhat to reject!
    https://isene.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/on-the-value-of-life/

    The Ex-Scientologist Per-Olof Samuelsson have translated one of her books to Swedish; “The Virtue of Selfishness” note that it is not only possible to be selfish, it is a Virtue! That statement may be very provoking to the Altruist Stance! This is a quote from a letter to Sea Org!

    3. A man’s value does not lie in the service he can render other people. A man first and foremost has a value to himself.
    http://www.nattvakt.com/online/scn/cathy.htm

    Soderqvist1: this is his response to “his” huge Freeloader Bill!
    The incident with the Freeloader Bill have been mentioned in News Paper here in Sweden. I have quoted it in order to stimulate yours and others appetite to read more about how this academic goes about to answer letters from Sea Org!

    Samuelsson: If a debt can be accumulated over a period of one billion years – then it can also be paid back over a period of one billion years. That is exactly what I will do. Starting today, I will pay back my freeloader debt in installments of 0.05 Swiss Francs every one thousandth year. Please expect my next installment on November 1, 2980 (AD 1030).
    http://www.nattvakt.com/online/scn/korrespondens.htm

    Soderqvist1: btw, As an endnote once upon a time I was Communist, and I will be it again or some other variant of Altruism, if you can prove that the manifesto of an Egoist is not logical sustainable!

    1. I do not need to prove that. And I do not need to convince you of anything. I will leave that up to you.

      This is simply an epiphany of my own priorities. And that protesting the CoS is indeed a luxury phenomenon. Along with Mickey Mouse, FIFA 11, Armani and Slalom.

      And then people pitch in with indignation and take it somewhat personally. Go figure.

  11. Mostly, I have not found your blog to be a protest AGAINST anything, but rather an exploring of ideas that relate to many areas of life. It has helped broaden my viewpoints to listen to the experiences and thoughts of others. If not for certain people in unique positions regarding Scientology (you included) coming forward with information about the current activities, I would be in a lot worse place in my life. So thank you.

    Helping individuals better their lives can have very large effects because you are helping to bring out the the expression of uniqueness each of us has to create a better world together. Since being relieved of the guilt and onerous “duty” to “save the planet” I am able to live my life in a way that actually is much more helpful because I am following paths that I love and things just seem to go better.

    When I first read your post, I felt an “Oh no!” because it seemed similar to this church of scientology idea of sacrificing yourself and the individual for these greater causes. But I think I was just my knee-jerk reaction.

    1. Yeah, I have touched on this ine earlier posts. My motivations are always in motion. This one blog post is simply one picture frame in a whole movie.

  12. After a little more thought… I believe that we are creating new realities here, realities where people are respectful, curious, caring, confident and value life. And the ripple effect is no small thing. I have no interest in bashing Scientology, but I do have an interest in exploring the human reasons behind what occurred within the group and applying this to other aspects of life. Your blog does this beautifully.

  13. “When protesting the Church of Scientology has become more important to a large number of people than helping the world overcome poverty, helping the climate get back on it’s feet and solving the many miseries plaguing a large portion of the population on this planet, I believe we have gotten to a point of decadence.”

    and Geir, please tell me, what are you doing in these directions. I am curious.

          1. Someone who answers like this: “Oh, the drama… “one of the greatest swindle of our times”. It’s hard to get more Hamlet than that.” Very hard to imagine that he really wishes to me a great time… 🙂
            Anyway, Sci(zo)entology is really one of the greatest swindle of our times. I know. Unfortunatelly I was involved for a couple of decades.
            Anyway, I am not going to Africa for vacation or for any other reasons. I do not have the money to do that. So I’m afraid, I am inferior 🙂

            1. I wasn’t asking whether you were going to Africa or what else you don’t do. I asked, like you, what you actually Do.

              And, the fact that I find you description overdramatic has absolutely no relation to the fact that I do wish you have a fantastic life. How on earth did you connect the two?

          2. Scientology is a great swindle. There is nothing dramatic about it. A person says he is a nuclear physicist, a medical doctor and Maitreya Boddhisattva when obviously he is not. I think it is a complement that I do not call him a madmen just say he is a swindle.
            If his intentions were good he can come back and clear himself. I have no objections to that.

            1. You de-dramatized it a lot right there.

              From “one of the greatest swindle of our times” to “a great swindle”. Nice with a bit less drama here.

  14. Besides my previous point, Scientology is one of the greatest swindle of our times. Not to do anything against it is one of the greatest luxury.

      1. Geir,
        You act and do like a Scientologist. The one who was trained in Super-Ego.
        You departed the Church but you are just a Valuable Final Product of the Church.
        I am rather what I am (nowhere on the Bridge to nowhere) than an OT VIII of this kind of ironic guy than you.

        1. A not-so-interesting argumentum ad hominem. It would be good if you could articulate your exact views or disagreements better.

          As I said; I see something. I call it as I see it. Simple. If that somewhat disturbs you, the church or whoever, then be it. Seriously, I don’t pick sides and don’t stretch my integrity to play favors. Take it personally if you want, but then at least you have taken it.

          1. Geir, referring conclusively to “argumentum ad hominem” is stereotype thinking.
            And too often you take this Judge Dredd attitude which does not fit well to anyone. However I am not suprised if this Judge Dredd hat is worn by a Scientologist.
            I do not have anything against if you go out and find better activities. Maybe “chasing” the Church of Sci(zo)entology is a luxury for you. Maybe not for others. So why are you making a generality out of it?
            Everything has it’s place.
            Let’s stop wasting money on traffic lamps because there are other, more important problems we have to spend money on? Sounds great…

            1. If you can make a case for your last comment not being an AdHom, I would be surprised. Refuting it just doesn’t cut it.

              As I said, I see it as a luxury phenomenon along with all the other luxury activities we are able to enjoy in the rich west. In a poor African country, I would think few people would have the time or, yes, luxury to go out and protest a fringe religion.

              As for Judge Dredd; Thanks for the compliment.

          2. Judge Dredd is not a compliment here 🙂
            DM is Judge Dredd as well 😀
            And all the Sci(zo) ethics officers are.
            I’ve had explanations earlier not AdHom but you just refused all. You would probably listen and learn racial basics from Hitler. You would judge only after reading his all life volume of words.
            On the other hand it is a luxury from that viewpoint indeed. But the two viewpoints are not comparable so there is no sense to paralell these.

            1. This is a rather poor case you are making for your own adhom here.

              BTW: Judge Dredd has some excellent qualities. Should not throw the baby out with the bath water there either, right?

          3. Judge Dredd here was referring to shot from hips and use excess force (for getting in ethics by one’s judgement).
            You are constantly invalidating from hips and using labels just like a model Scientologist would do.
            Yes, “Judge Dredd has some excellent qualities”. I am not OT by definition but I am seemingly able to agree on things which are obvious.

            1. “You are constantly invalidating from hips and using labels just like a model Scientologist would do.”

              That would qualify as the logical fallacy of “Generalization”, wouldn’t you think?

              It would help your own “invalidation from the hip” here if you could specify with examples – else it really do seem like a pot, kettle, black.

          4. Geir, less mathematics, more life, please.
            I’m sure, you know what I am talking about.

            1. I am sure I don’t.

              Please be specific and not throw around general invalidations like you just did (and that you ironically accuse me of).

        2. You lost me a bit there, Overdriver. In this latest exchange I don’t really understand what you’re saying – maybe Geir does.

          In my confusion I’ll just make two observations:

          1: Having a bit more of an active Super-Ego (i.e. conscience, in Freudian terms) is something that we wish the CoS leadership had. I know that’s not what you meant by “Super-Ego”; you rather meant a self-worshipping egotistical person who doesn’t care about others, like an Atheistic Satanist, but I see nothing of that in Geir or in this blog post. For an independent Scientologist, an ex-Scientologist, or a current Scientologist in “good standing” alike, I think recognizing that there are more important things than oneself and Scientology is the opposite of egotism.

          2: Your nickname “Overdriver” is quite fitting to your assertion that Scientology is among the worst things ever. The leadership sure wishes it was so, and there would have been terrible consequences if they had taken over the world. They’re far from achieving that though.

  15. I am not so sure that protesting the abusive actions of the Church of Scientology is a luxury. It may well be that protesting abusive actions in general is a vital step to enhancing the health and welfare of all people, all life and indeed the very fabric of our existence.

    But I do not think it is ONLY vital in the realm of the Church of Scientology. It is vital to protest it whenever found in every group, every government, every interaction that an individual is connected to or participating in.

    I have often asked myself how it can be that such a huge percentage of the world’s human population lives in abject poverty, while other sectors enjoy relative prosperity and affluence.

    And how is it that this is a constant and repetitive scenario in the history of human kind?

    What exactly needs to be protested?

    I keep my eye out for clues and ideas that might lend insight and even possible means of addressing this age long problem.

    Recently I discovered this essay — Democracy’s Next Step: Overcoming Rankism by Robert W. Fuller. Here is the link to the essay: http://www.humiliationstudies.org/documents/FullerImpulse.pdf

    At the heart of this essay is the concept of human dignity and what Fuller calls “rankism.”

    Here is a short excerpt from Fuller’s website:

    “Rankism: A Social Disorder

    An undiagnosed disorder is at large in the world. It afflicts individuals, groups, and nations. It distorts our personal relationships, erodes our will to learn, taxes our economic productivity, stokes ethnic hatred, and incites nations to war. It is the cause of dysfunctionality, and sometimes even violence, in families, schools, and the workplace.

    Over the course of history, the most common abuses of power have acquired special names:

    tyranny
    colonialism
    slavery
    racism
    sexism
    lynching
    rape
    bullying
    child and elder abuse
    domestic violence
    sexual harrassment
    corporate corruption
    clergy misconduct
    homophobia

    Each of these practices is an abuse of the weak by the strong. Each of these familiar named offenses is an instance of bullying, of pulling rank, of putting people down. By analogy with abuses based on race and gender, abuse based on rank is called rankism.

    rankism:

    1. n. abuse, discrimination, or exploitation based on rank
    2. n. abusive, discriminatory, or exploitative behavior towards people who have less power because of their lower rank in a particular hierarchy

    Once you have a name for it, you see rankism at the heart of many infringements of human rights, far away or close to home. Rankism is the root cause of indignity, injustice, and unfairness. Choosing the term rankism, places the goal of universal human dignity in the context of contemporary movements for civil rights. Reexamining racism, sexism, and ageism as examples of rankism breathes new life into the movements opposing them. Identifying rankism in all its guises and overcoming it is democracy’s next step.

    Isn’t Pulling Rank Human Nature?

    Sure it is. But changing attitudes toward racism and sexism suggest that we can also change our attitudes toward rank-based discrimination. If anything is human nature, it is the will to democracy, that is, the will to curtail abuses of rank by acting together to create systems of governance that circumscribe authority.

    The first step is to become aware of rank as an excuse for abuse. As we become adept at distinguishing between the legitimate and illegitimate uses of rank, collective opposition to rank’s abuses becomes possible.”

    You can read the rest of it here: http://www.breakingranks.net/weblog/rankism

    Compare this to the term “decadence.”

    Decadence: 1. the act or process of falling into an inferior condition or state; deterioration; decay: Some historians hold that the fall of Rome can be attributed to internal decadence.
    2. moral degeneration or decay; turpitude.
    3. unrestrained or excessive self-indulgence.

    And this is how I have come to the conclusion that protesting acts that violate human dignity and promote rankism may not be a luxury but a vital and important action for each and every individual who becomes aware of abuse in their vicinity to take.

    It may be that it will take the action of countless, countless people protesting this on every front to make the massive level of change required throughout the world to enable actions that end this idea that huge sectors of the population can be reduced to poverty and abuse so that those of higher “rank” can enjoy their decadent lifestyles.

  16. I think it’s considered cool to attack and fight. Like demolishing a building is easier and more thrilling than constructing one, though less satisfying or helpful in the long run.

  17. Yes and many Anons have also moved on to more important issues such as freedom of information.

  18. “Fighting ” the Church of Sci(zo)entology(TM) which promotes abortion for SO members is a luxury… ? Is it just an invalidation of the Church or a real statement?

  19. Personally, I protest against all sorts of things, Scientology just being one of them. From a sociological perspective, I have to say that Scientology provides a remarkably accurate microcosm of what’s wrong with the macrocosmic “real” western world.

    1. Still trying to hammer in a point here?

      Except that Scientology is on the fringe of the fringe when it comes to religions or movements or groups.

  20. I guess it depends on what you term a “large number of people”.

    Are there more people protesting the church than in the church? I could be wrong but I guess there’s somewhere between 30 and 50 thousand scientologists worldwide? How many people are protesting the church? 10 thousand? I admit these are guesses, but I don’t think I’m far wrong.

    Also, if you gave me a choice between eliminating CoS and solving world hunger/poverty/disease/war there would be no contest whatsoever. I totally understand the context of Scientology. I give monthly to the same charities (children, cancer, blindness in India). I don’t donate to xenutv.

    For decades, those protesting Scientology could probably be counted in the hundreds. A small enough number for the church to victimise on an individual basis. Thankfully enough people have now got involved to stem the tide of this disgraceful excuse for a church.

    If as a society we could hear stories of RPF gulags, coerced abortion, family disconnection, staff beatings, human trafficking, slave labor and not want to bring it to an end, then we would be truly decadent.

    Once the leadership of the church have been sentenced, once the church starts acting like a church, then those very few people who protest will go and do something else.

  21. well – just read this post (again?) and while I didn’t bother reading the comments (sorry – tired over here…) I wanted to say a word or two…

    I agree. To a degree.

    Those who have some sort of emotional investment into the church (by actual stats or because they decided to make it their pet project) have of course “free will” as you so eloquently stated elsewhere…

    Perhaps they are working off some karmic imbalance that they’ve accrued one way or the other with CofS. Perhaps they are bored. perhaps perhaps perhaps.

    True, you can hope they have better things to do that will help you me or the others ™, but if all we are doing is playing a massive MMO in the PU, then ALL roles in said universe need to be mocked up and played.

    What good is a game if everybody is playing superman or mother teresa?

    We need a good fight now and again to stir the pot!!

    no?

    1. hehe. Of course. But in the context of the whole world, it’s a luxury to be so fortunate (using this word liberally) as to be able to go out on a street and protest something as fringe as the CoS:

  22. It is my opinion and you have the right to make a joke of it or be negligent after all it is your blog. But I do not think Scientology is on the fringe. It can be on the fringe as a religion. But it wants to have impact on society and it can be more dangerous than you think.
    Take a look at the legal actions they win. They have big money so they can have big influence besides legal actions.
    If a group can get away with murder (Lisa McPherson) and prison camps, not to speak about it’s era of government infiltration it is not fringe on the overall scene for sure.

    1. And you have the right to dramatize it as you wish.

      I could easily name 1000 groups that are more influentially dangerous than the CoS.

  23. Geir,

    Interesting article, but I think you make the same mistake others have made. Protesting or criticising or helping is not a zero sum game.

    You seem to assume that those protesting the Church of Scientology cannot protest (or help) elsewhere. In my experience, such activism takes very little time and leaves much time (and attention) for many other pursuits. I have found that many of those protesting the church tend to be heavily involved in other good projects as well.

    I’ve even read that some, inspired by what was done against the church, have subsequently become active in other activism.

    You talk about priorities, but what makes you think protesting is anyone’s “highest priority”? They do it, but many, many other things are probably much more important to them.

    You try to make the point that “there are much worse things than Scientology”. So? That would seem to imply that we all should forget everything else and only work on that one Ultimate Bad Thing — or that we should neglect all bad things that aren’t rated “sufficiently bad”. I don’t think you mean that.

    You make a lot of unwarranted assumptions here. You might want to give it a bit more thought.

    Bill

    1. Comment to an old article. Cool.

      “A luxury phenomena” – let me explain: I am sitting here and now in the middle of Dar es Salaam in Tanzania. The phenomena of protesting some fringe church would probably never come up on anyone’s agenda here in Dar. This is what I mean by “a luxury phenomena”. Get it?

      I believe you are defending. Chill.

      1. I think it is a matter of attention. Something is grabbing one’s attention and one is reacting to it. That is happening with respect to the Church of Scientology in the mind of those who are protesting against it.

        The simple remedy would be to look at one’s experience with the Church of Scientology and Scientology (principes, policy, etc.) using the KHTK approach. This is basically auditing of this particular area of one’s life. Please see

        KHTK 5: ATTENTION

        .

  24. It seems to me Life is a smorgasbord. Individuals tend to embrace or reject issues that are ‘real’ to them, their loved ones, their families and friends.

    IF the 81 year old lady you speak of had an organization remove her loved ones, family members and friends from her life, she may well have chosen to protest that organization for the rest of her life, rather than dedicate her life to helping the poor.

    Most definitely it’s about priorities. For one and all.

      1. Not sure what you mean by ‘defensive about this blog post’ but if you mean ‘defensive about a responders own point of view, which point of view is differing from another, on this blog, or specifically regarding a specific post, I do get that.

        I imagine all ‘opinions’ to be akin to ‘valences’ individuals enter into, often unawares. Becoming one with, as it were, the opinion, which tends to require a need to defend ‘it’, as if it were actually Ones Self.
        Which theory would predict an emotional charge on what otherwise would merely be an intellectual exchange.

        This blog is outstanding in terms of both content and context, from my point of view.

  25. A viewpoint by its nature defends itself and also that, which it identifies itself with.

    An exception would be a viewpoint that does not care for its survival. That viewpoint soon vanishes into emlightenment, and may come back transformed into another viewpoint.

    .

Have your say

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s