Free or not free

Adam looked at Peter, reflected on the past decade and said: “You’ve been a critic of Scientology for that many years…

Yeah

…and I’ve been a proponent, eagerly defending the subject since I left the church more than 10 years ago.

And?

And we’re not really free from this, are we?

Where are you heading with this?

Peter, the years go by and we’re stuck with this. It’s like some super-goo that I can’t fuckin’ get off my skin. I understand that I needed a couple of years to decompress from that church experience, but seriously, this is ridiculous.

Says you! What about me, then. I was never in the church and I’m equally stuck in this rut…

What we could have done with all that energy spent over the years…

Then Adam decided to write another blog post about it.


(Hugh at Gapingvoid.com)

86 thoughts on “Free or not free

  1. LOL true. Interesting subject to kill some time with, though. Maybe better than soccer. And there is also that unfulfilled quest for truth that adds up to the obsession, in my opinion.

    1. @Spyros
      Got me thinking then… In your “Scientology United” soccer team…. Who would be the best defense, best captain and best attacker ?

      love
      bren

        1. Question: How many Scientologists here have seriously studied the works of ANY of the philosophers on that soccer field?

          When and if you did, how did LRH’s philosophy compare to anything you saw there?

          I mean specifically. Like Aristotle’s Ethics, as an example – have you ever studied something like Aristotle’s Ethics and compared it to Hubbard’s Ethics?

          Why or why not?

          Alanzo

            1. Awesome.

              I loved it when I studied it. To me, when I studied it, it was clear that Hubbard had studied it too and used it to form basic parts of Scientology. What is extremely interesting to me is what Hubbard LEFT OUT of Aristotle’s Ethics.

              That showed, to me, what Hubbard was actually up to.

              It would be interesting to see what you think after you have studied it.

              Alanzo

      1. LOL sorry, I’m not very familiar with the SCN celebrities, but certainly X would be Captain 😛

    2. Sypros: “unfulfilled quest for truth”

      Great answer. I think it’s the basic reason for both the critics and the proponents. At least some of them, maybe most. Maybe all.

      1. Yes yes. I also think it is something all beings have in common. I remember that tape I in Student Hat that said that there is a higher purpose than to survive –to learn.

      1. MT: “So there are only two questions to be answered:. . .”

        Chris: If you are really asking, there are many questions left to be answered. These two that you ask take a while to settle down. Familiarizing myself with the way that you write, I assume you want to tell the answer. For me, the answer to “identity” leaves me stuck in that box of identity. It is not the answer to the question which needs answering for this is a pat and easily learned answer. It is the question which needs to be explored for it is the question which is flawed.

        1. Chris
          “you want to tell the answer” ….no, Chris. These two questions lead to experience…beyond the mind…and then on to what you are discussing with 2ndxmr….I may join in in the evening as I have no time now! Love your discussion!

  2. Isene
    The post is hilarious! I get the joke part of it too. Yet, relatively few people can say on Planet Earth what you said ” I AM ME “. And also, as Anette quoted Ron ” an adventure “. This adventure can expand….there is a conversation between Chris and 2ndxmr on QM…interesting and a little part of it my experience too. Experience, which has an effect on everyday life too….nondual, that is. As I see it, when one communicates about experiences, they expand too. Can you / would you like to join that discussion on the other thread?

    1. Marianne, I dont know why, I’ve never been to flag, but for some reason your photo reminds me of it 😛 Were you staff there?

      1. Spyros
        No, I have never been there and I have never been staff. The photo is two years old, I put it here for fun in an exchange, I look different now, will put a new one here later.

        1. Oh alright., Your style reminded me much of Scientologese style. Espacially the short hair were very much in fashion in my local cos and also in some SO members I had seen.

          I’ve been looking blank lately

          1. Scientologese style? Hm? Actually when it was taken it was the “hardest” year of my life…don’t think about big things…got a little disillusionized with lots of stuff..put on weight.
            People didn’t see anything of it and of course in the core of it I was still happy. So, I sat on the bus heading for London not wishing to go to one of my favourite cities. The seat was small. I confronted space. My “mind” collapsed (you know, you take space out of MEST).
            Bum! Different, yet the same world! A shift of perceiving things! This is how it started…

            1. Yes, you mentioned a disillusionment. And I asked if it’s fully as-iseed now. I fancy such kind of case too. And today I looked into something that was the total opposite than what I had thought before. Good to know.

            2. Because it doesn’t just involve myself, I wouldnt, without the permission of the other person. But to speak generaly, it was the usual overt-motivator sequence, where I was stuck with the motivator while the overt was more important to me, and made me cause the motivator as well.

            3. Spyros
              Thanks, I understand! It’s great that we can use a language, where no personal details are needed! Also, as in the TR-s, the energy release-as-is is more important. Glad you are aware of that situation! Life for me is full of surprises of different kinds every day! Seems for you too!

            4. Marianne, if I had the kind of life you described, I woulkd be like Indiana Jones 😛 Nah I’m actually pretty chilled and take it easy, really. Sometimes I quarrel, too, as you may have noticed 😛 But I’m glad you have an adventurous life.

              I think when we as-is the energies then we can see the thoughts, and then we are finished. If I’m in a really good shape, I dont even need go through energies. I go straight to the thought. but that’s rare for me.

  3. Cool idea. But wrong target Geir. For the people here, it’s not the topic. That’s just the vehicle.

    It’s the dopamine produced from the game of blogging.

    And you Geir are addicted. So is Alanzo, Valkov, Marianne, Maria and others and me.

    It’s time to point to the real reason we come. The real reason we check back over and over. Why Geir must pimp slap Vin over and over and why Vin keeps coming back to feel the backhand. Why the banter never ends is because we all want …

    Dopamine.

    Blog comment dopamine.

    And when (and if) you can walk away, what vehicle will you choose next to get it next? Hmm?

    ((SUGGESTION: GOOGLE “DOPAMINE AND INERNET ADDICTION))

    My name is Will Harper. I’m addicted to dopamine produced from internet discussions. It’s been 0 minutes since my last post. . .

    1. Kata
      “when you walk away, what vehicle will you choose to get it next?” I am giving you now a LOT OF DOPAMINE for this! I just love this thought! Perhaps the next is NO THOUGHT?

        1. Eliz: Sweet pea… hehehe from one junky to the nother: Love ya!

          Ya, I’m addicted and when I get my mind full enough of mental games that provide my dopamine, will have to get on to the important spiritual practice. Blogging is a step above studying by oneself tho, as there is a connection with other beings and makes for some fun. Hey, I have to get goin’ and balance out, hehe
          Fun thread!

  4. To reduce it down to one thing is to miss the MANY reasons we come here to discuss this.

    It’s not just one thing. It is many things, and each of those many things are the reasons.

    1. For me, I don’t have anyone in my real life who understands Scientology and what I went through. I need people like that.

    2. I have very few people in my life who are as intelligent and expressive in the area of the spiritual as the people on this blog. I have found that this is true of almost all people who were attracted to Scientology and are still attracted to it.

    3. I like to write and to practice writing. While I *should* be practicing writing in other forms, there is nothing like the instant gratification of having something you have just written and read and commented on like Geir’s blog. I can cause an instant effect with my writing here.

    4. Even someone like Valkov has given me ideas and books to read – completely outside of the world of Scientology – that have changed my life for the better. Maybe this is like the “wins” in Scientology that keep you stuck to the subject.

    5. Dopamine. Lots and lots of dopamine. Which also comes from sex and good movies and drinking and playing golf and driving fast in a new BMW. So what? I crave dopamine just like the next guy. You get it where you can.

    6. A sense of community. It’s weird how social human beings are. I look at little dots on a screen and think I see a person there. Further, I think that person sees me and gets to know me, as I get to know them. And then together their are others and we all have a community.

    So I don’t know if it is just being stuck in the subject of Scientology. I think that is diseasifying or catastrophizing this thing that we do with each other every day. I think that is a cognitive distortion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion

    Hmmm. Let’s see….How else do I justify the overt of writing on Geir’s blog?

    Alanzo

    1. And one more thing: If Scientology ever took over the world, as Hubbard created it to do, we would have an absolute nightmare society, way worse than anything depicted in 1984 or the Middle Ages.

      The harmful, crazy, and dangerous parts of Scientology do need to be continually exposed so that too many individuals do not become tricked by the built-in deceptions which Hubbard put into the subject.

      As a person who knows where these deceptions are, I feel a personal responsibility to expose these and to keep them exposed so that Scientology does not achieve its purposes in my society in my lifetime.

      I feel a duty to my society and to my own ideals to expose Scientology on the Internet.

      So there’s that, too.

      Alanzo

        1. Geir wrote:

          Excellent justification.

          Thanks, here’s another one.

          I also care about people who, just like me, were deceived by L Ron Hubbard. It is extremely clear to me that Hubbard poured every technique of social coercion and classical brainwashing into Scientology, especially after the mid 1960’s. People, being basically social, are susceptible to these destructive forms of influence.

          I want to get them thinking again. It doesn’t matter if they stay in the mindset or get out completely. As long as they are capable of identifying the traps and the socially coercive techniques and have enough information that was kept from them that they are aware of the lies and the deceptions, then this I believe is very important and valuable for others.

          Because there are so many people coming out now, and because Scientology is crumbling around the world, there are many individuals who I believe need our help.

          And I do think the discussion and the free expression of the viewpoints here – ALL of the viewpoints here without censorship – are helpful to them.

          Alanzo

          1. Alanzo, I like your reasons 1-6 and the justification also. Hear, hear ! to the above.

        2. So here’s a question that LRH left out of his O/W/MWH procedure:

          After getting off all the justifications, the auditor should ask:

          Is it really an overt to discuss Scientology on Geir’s blog?

          Alanzo

        3. Al, it’s true the Starbucks is bigger than caffeine.

          There’s internet, crappy pastries, trendy people behind the counter, the New York Times…

          But how did it GET those things? Hmm? And what would happen if it ALL WENT DECAF?

          1. Now on the flip side, I think Alanzo Calrizzian has helped a LOT of people. He also has a STRONG desire to post great writing on the internet.

            Just know what that desire is Al.

            Dopamine.

    2. You write too well and too much to have this be a 30 minute a day gig Al.

      Do you long to know how someone will reply to your post JUST LIKE you longed for the Batman Utility belt you saved box tops for as a kid?

      Dopamine.

      Why does auditing with an electrical current make people go “woo-hoo! I’m WINNING LIKE CHARLIE SHEEN DIDN’T!”

      Dopamine.

      Why do people SAIL FROM RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES?

      Dopamine (sorry folks, but it’s true).

      The good news is we can create it from healthier sources. Music. Art. Deep conversations. sex…”

      And admittedly, blogging is better than free-basing but pales in comparison to HOT, SWEET LOVIN!

      To Dopamine!

      A toast!

      1. Kata
        Of course it’s about LOVIN! In a highly concentrated form on this blog! Let me explain, how I mean it. Look around in life. Can you find anything which is not made out of the purest energy called Life-Love? This key-board, the table….the thoughts I am typing here. Yes, there is this Flow out of which the thoughts arise – same substance. All of us who are writing here “flow ” smoothly and communicate our thoughts to the moment about a lot of topics which you cannot discuss in everyday life, perhaps only in scientific circles. I am here only on this blog. Have been in some research areas. Here I feel very similar, that is learning something every day. Here I feel genuine attention, care and mostly genuine ideas. Absolute generousity.
        I am two feet on the ground, live a life with lots of activities during the day. I meet a lot of students and people. As many as I want to. I don’t do any sport now, but I test
        my body if I can still do gymnastics or play tennis – and yes! But these days I just don’t feel like it! Basically I do and can do what I want! I am still interested in scio – what you say about the tech – mostly the “positive” part, as I experienced that when I was there. My mind never
        got stuck on the concepts (as I said earlier I cleared them). Also when you write about other
        topics or experiences. I am here because I like you and what you are writing about. Also, I post some other spiritual stuff here, which I share when the topic allows it to give you a feel of “truth” from a different aspect.
        Kata – this love here is certainly “SWEET”….and you are right. one needn’t neglect the hot either! So – how are the girls Kata?

        1. Marianne you write some kind of hotness!

          The girl thing is I in the “awesome” range. We’ve been together 13 years and it’s scary how well we get along. We met each other right after we were both dumped by our spouses and we mutually rebounded into the best relationship of our lives.

          The only problem we have is that she hates Pho, Hibachi and Thai food. If anything will break us, it’s THAT.

          REASON FOR DIVORCE: “Irreconcilable Differences in Pho, Thai and Hibachi Incompatibility”

          Thank GOD for Mexican and Indian Food!

          But other than that, we like the same musicians, TV series, exercise activities, and we’re both vegans.

          And HOTNESS is still strong. And the best thing I love about her is …

          She fucking loves me.

          1. Awesome!!!! Even get the flow of your love (not the sex), the pure but energetic form!
            Some differences in food, well…when it comes to that, do what you like instead! Like your humour!!!

  5. I agree with Alanzo’s list of reasons why — community, shared experience, challenge, writing, and seeking. I have no one in my current off-line community to discuss this with, to compare experiences with, sharing and exploring the drawbacks, implications and radical states of mind and heart.

    As to the neurochemical responses of the body, they are simply responses that neuroscience has found to be ASSOCIATED with particular behaviors. ASSOCIATED. It does not mean they are the CAUSE of the behaviors – they are the RESULTING observable EFFECTS of the behaviors.

    And dopamine is NOT the weenie that produces satisfaction, it is associated with seeking satisfaction.

    For example, falling in love is associated with a soup of neurochemicals—the heart racing thrill associated with adrenaline, the craving associated with dopamine, the obsession associated with low serotonin, and the deep satisfaction associated with oxytocin. When there is a surge of dopamine, this is followed by a surge of prolactin, which shuts off the craving. In men, this is the satiation associated with the aftermath of sex, commonly a complete lack of interest at least for a while.

    This isn’t much different than that sense of craving for food when you are hungry and that sense of satisfaction when you have eaten your fill. Addiction? Sure, if you consider vital processes of the body to be an addiction.

    There is a fascinating study called “The Love Competition” that monitored the neural pathways of several individuals who contemplated love, concentrating of recalling a time of great love while in an MRI machine. It seems that thrill seeking definitely is not the whole picture!

    “Who can activate their dopamine-seretonin-oxytocin pathways the strongest?! Stanford University hosts the first ever “love competition” by asking seven contestants, each with their own unique back stories, to love as hard as they can for five minutes. While each of these subjects released their own personal strategies with deep concentration, an f.M.R.I. machine was used to measure activation of their dopamine-seretonin-oxytocin pathways, regions of the brain ASSOCIATED with feelings of love and compassion.”

    [http://theflowchannel.com/2012/05/03/the-love-competition-an-introduction-to-the-neuroscience-of-metta-meditations/]

    p.s. you’ll have to take the brackets off and copy/paste the link to watch the video and read the info.

      1. There’s an LRH lecture where he says that even MEST is “alive”. I think Rafael gave me the link one time so I might be able to find it, or maybe Rafael will see this and tell us.

          1. Marianne, I found Rafael’s post:

            “2011-08-10 AT 02:26
            @Marildi
            I couldn´t reply directly to your post, but I want to comment you reminded me of something Ron says in the lectures of Admiration & the Renaissanse of Beingness I think, regarding”everything of MEST is yet of spirit”, He says something like” space is a viewpoint of dimension, and that tells you immediately that MEST is alive” if I understood it well, the highest way to know something is by being it.”

            Then I googled and found this (from the Application of Games Theory to Processing Professional Course):

            “Now, to grant life, there must be something to grant life to. This is quite important. To grant life, there must be something to grant life to—and I mean some THING.

            “It’s all very well for an individual in a native state to postulate, “I now grant life.”

            “Look, he’s alive. What is he going to grant life to? There is nothing to grant life to.

            “The way he actually goes about it is to make some space and put an object in it and then say, “That’s alive.”
            […]
            “The granting of life requires something to grant life to. Therefore if we made nothing out of everything, really factually, nothing would be alive—because a thetan in his native state is not, as you and I would think of it, totally alive. Because he is not doing. He is potentially alive, he does have awareness without anything to be aware of. And that’s an embarrassing thing to be in. So he promptly puts out something to be aware of.

            “And then he goes, tries to find Joe so he can get Joe to agree that he has put something up, so that he can be reassured that there is something there to be aware of. Do you have that? He’s started a universe and here he goes. All right.”

            http://lrh-books.com/lrhquotes/?tag=games

    1. What you and Alanzo write the “WHY” is the justification and that is the End Product

      1..New experience come into ones place. that is energy-live vibration. its stimulates; gun is pointed at you. In fact that experience is more than one, because you experience his bodies energy-vibration than the gun… knowing what is, what can it do sets off all sort of instant stimulation..full power as a kick of the mule-

      2… the vibration the mental image pictures activates the mechanisms of the body and you will react accordingly.

      3… LRH covered this subject.

      Katageek is right in his post and You and Alanso doing the justification- the denial bit and that will not change anything…

      Stimulation is what prompts one to do.
      you eat drink, have sex, go for a walk, listen to your favorite music, smoke tobaco, read a novel, whatever in order to receive-experience.

          1. I see. Thing is, Alanzo was making a joke about “justifying” his so-called “overt acts” in participating in this blog. I don’t see a need for justification at all, as I do not see communicating to others as an overt act whether accomplished on a blog, by phone or by direct cognizance.

            I am curious as to why or what you would be justifying. Does there need to be a justification at all?

            1. I have no reason to justify anything and i dont need one and not even for writting here..
              As you write your reality I do the same write my own.. But again Maria.. there is a good reason I read most of the postings…

  6. And on that note, I think now I will go off and learn to play guitar, sing and write music. My energy from this moment forward is going to that endeavor. I’ll get back to you after I record my first song.

    Good posting!

    Love to you all. ❤ and I mean that most sincerely xoxoxoxo

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